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ScienceFictionado
Stefan Molyneux from freedomain radio:
"If you are a political addict, or follow, or are interested in politics at all, please consider this your intervention."
Freeing Yourself from Politics

"Hopefully we'll help crack the lock, on the door of your cell and give you the chance to escape this fetid underworld"
smarrie
On my third try I was able to watch it through (not a big fan of yellers), free yourself and find some joy?...the guys rage is so thoroughly torqued and contorted, his level of anxiety (grief) is out of control. When someone (especially children) does the ‘big deal, so what, who cares’ routine it is an indication of exactly just how much they do care - far far too much. At least there is a comfort in knowing your not alone, eh! Stefan Molyneux is a neighbor, Mississauga. Thanx SciFi.
ScienceFictionado
QUOTE(smarrie @ Sep 10 2008, 04:21 PM) *
On my third try I was able to watch it through (not a big fan of yellers), free yourself and find some joy?...the guys rage is so thoroughly torqued and contorted, his level of anxiety (grief) is out of control. When someone (especially children) does the ‘big deal, so what, who cares’ routine it is an indication of exactly just how much they do care - far far too much. At least there is a comfort in knowing your not alone, eh! Stefan Molyneux is a neighbor, Mississauga. Thanx SciFi.


Yeah i agree that he has a yelling problem and is playing the 'big deal, so what, who cares' routine, and I find it as juvenile as you do. I do however agree with him on his main point (which he repeats over and over and over again)
that many people spend far to much time emotionally involved in the electoral process. Its a sham, and he is absolutely right about the way that politicians craft their rhetoric.
That rhetoric is- an appeal to every popular articulation of desire with false hopes and promises. Even staunch Obama supporters recognize that Obama plays both sides of the proverbial fence, but imagine that he has to do this in order to win in a racialy biased political landscape, and will eventually be the liberal savior that everyone has been waiting for, or other such nonsense.
Where I fundementaly disagree with him, is in his appeal for us to stop being aware of politics, and just let the government roll over us when it must.
There is a big difference between buying into the drama of the modern electoral process, and being aware of its effects and causes.
To borrow Stefan's analogy of the hood ornament- while it is unimportant what hood ornament is on the car (that is speeding towards you) it is important that you recognize it as a car, with a driver, that can be avoided or halted with proper action and knowledge. His suggestion seems to be- "don't worry about the hood ornament. Just close your eyes because you are going to get hit anyways."
The present state of civil affairs are- The vast majority of voters focus on what the hood ornament might look like, never noticing the car coming down on them. And we get run over.
gibbersome
QUOTE(ScienceFictionado @ Sep 11 2008, 12:08 AM) *
Yeah i agree that he has a yelling problem and is playing the 'big deal, so what, who cares' routine, and I find it as juvenile as you do. I do however agree with him on his main point (which he repeats over and over and over again)
that many people spend far to much time emotionally involved in the electoral process. Its a sham, and he is absolutely right about the way that politicians craft their rhetoric.
That rhetoric is- an appeal to every popular articulation of desire with false hopes and promises. Even staunch Obama supporters recognize that Obama plays both sides of the proverbial fence, but imagine that he has to do this in order to win in a racialy biased political landscape, and will eventually be the liberal savior that everyone has been waiting for, or other such nonsense.
Where I fundementaly disagree with him, is in his appeal for us to stop being aware of politics, and just let the government roll over us when it must.
There is a big difference between buying into the drama of the modern electoral process, and being aware of its effects and causes.
To borrow Stefan's analogy of the hood ornament- while it is unimportant what hood ornament is on the car (that is speeding towards you) it is important that you recognize it as a car, with a driver, that can be avoided or halted with proper action and knowledge. His suggestion seems to be- "don't worry about the hood ornament. Just close your eyes because you are going to get hit anyways."
The present state of civil affairs are- The vast majority of voters focus on what the hood ornament might look like, never noticing the car coming down on them. And we get run over.


Agreed, the guy is over the top, but the core of his argument rings true, that there is too much bureaucracy between the common man and the executive office for there to be any timely response to the people's needs. Better to have stronger local governments.

Haha, I think you should post your comment on the youtube page, you make a very valid point. It seems despite our penchant for piracy, QSS members are as intelligent and thoughtful as any podcast intellectual.

Stephan is against government (since he argues that even a small government will eventually grow large and oppress its citizens), and I would love to see him temper his anarchist tendencies and give Libertarianism a second chance. We can't limit/eliminate the government in one swoop, but we can make little steps to get there.
gibbersome
QUOTE(smarrie @ Sep 10 2008, 08:21 PM) *
On my third try I was able to watch it through (not a big fan of yellers), free yourself and find some joy?...the guys rage is so thoroughly torqued and contorted, his level of anxiety (grief) is out of control. When someone (especially children) does the ‘big deal, so what, who cares’ routine it is an indication of exactly just how much they do care - far far too much. At least there is a comfort in knowing your not alone, eh! Stefan Molyneux is a neighbor, Mississauga. Thanx SciFi.


Mississauga? I grew up there! I do miss my Tim Hortons and Loblaws...
smarrie
QUOTE(ScienceFictionado @ Sep 10 2008, 04:08 PM) *
Yeah i agree that he has a yelling problem and is playing the 'big deal, so what, who cares' routine, and I find it as juvenile as you do. I do however agree with him on his main point (which he repeats over and over and over again)
that many people spend far to much time emotionally involved in the electoral process. Its a sham, and he is absolutely right about the way that politicians craft their rhetoric.
That rhetoric is- an appeal to every popular articulation of desire with false hopes and promises. Even staunch Obama supporters recognize that Obama plays both sides of the proverbial fence, but imagine that he has to do this in order to win in a racialy biased political landscape, and will eventually be the liberal savior that everyone has been waiting for, or other such nonsense.
Where I fundementaly disagree with him, is in his appeal for us to stop being aware of politics, and just let the government roll over us when it must.
There is a big difference between buying into the drama of the modern electoral process, and being aware of its effects and causes.
To borrow Stefan's analogy of the hood ornament- while it is unimportant what hood ornament is on the car (that is speeding towards you) it is important that you recognize it as a car, with a driver, that can be avoided or halted with proper action and knowledge. His suggestion seems to be- "don't worry about the hood ornament. Just close your eyes because you are going to get hit anyways."
The present state of civil affairs are- The vast majority of voters focus on what the hood ornament might look like, never noticing the car coming down on them. And we get run over.

Anger’s opposing avenues of aggressive expression cyclically complete with each other. It is either expressed outwardly - as seen in Stefan’s violent tone and gestures; or it can be channeled inward, violence directed towards oneself. Suicide is the extreme example of this form of anger’s destructive energy. There is a last resort / lack of option passivity in this terminating despair - as seen with Stefan’s speeding car analogy and his ‘standing there’ choice to just ‘get it over with.’ His other suggestion ‘walking away’ could be a far more positive ‘action’, although he only implies passively turning one’s back on politics. I personally am attracted to taking this to the extreme, a ‘lifestyle’ walk-about-face similar to the conclusion of ‘What a Way to Go: Life After Empire’ [and yes I did read your negative response -’fuck with peoples heads’ or ‘blow my head off’ would also illustrate the point I’m making with regard to anger as a dynamic energy]. Finally, Sefan’s childishness and his passive choo choo train of thought illustrate his desperate need / desire to be rescued - a those who can’t... teach! take my pain away logic...unfortunately there are no heroes (that also includes a debunking of super heroes for ScFi fans...lol). This abstract interpretation of the video is far more important than his concrete suggestions.
ScienceFictionado
QUOTE(smarrie @ Sep 11 2008, 02:11 PM) *
Anger’s opposing avenues of aggressive expression cyclically complete with each other. It is either expressed outwardly - as seen in Stefan’s violent tone and gestures; or it can be channeled inward, violence directed towards oneself. Suicide is the extreme example of this form of anger’s destructive energy. There is a last resort / lack of option passivity in this terminating despair - as seen with Stefan’s speeding car analogy and his ‘standing there’ choice to just ‘get it over with.’ His other suggestion ‘walking away’ could be a far more positive ‘action’, although he only implies passively turning one’s back on politics. I personally am attracted to taking this to the extreme, a ‘lifestyle’ walk-about-face similar to the conclusion of ‘What a Way to Go: Life After Empire’ [and yes I did read your negative response -’fuck with peoples heads’ or ‘blow my head off’ would also illustrate the point I’m making with regard to anger as a dynamic energy]. Finally, Sefan’s childishness and his passive choo choo train of thought illustrate his desperate need / desire to be rescued - a those who can’t... teach! take my pain away logic...unfortunately there are no heroes (that also includes a debunking of super heroes for ScFi fans...lol). This abstract interpretation of the video is far more important than his concrete suggestions.


Yeah, sorry for my caustic response to your 'What a Way to Go' video. It reminded me of the despair that is evoked from a fictional news special, on the death of the youngest person in the world, in the film "Children of Men". In that world there may be some cause for despair (btw, what a beautiful portrayal of how domestic society deals with disaster: 1.stand with legs apart 2.bend over and plant head in ground) but there are still plenty of options for action within our world. If i recall correctly, the 'What a Way' documentary suggests more grass roots involvement in the holding of local and federal offices. While I do agree with you that involvement in local governance is really imperative right now, I think we all may differ on what local governance means. Gibbersome, I don't think that slow progressive change within our current government will ever work. Its a game of one step forward, two steps back. The greedy will always have more greed for power than libertarians have for self governance.

Call me a hypocritical luddite if you wish, but I seriously think the only way for the average American do become free of the virtual reality (that we call politics, religion and advertising)
is for them to drop out en mass. I mean drop out, and move back to the rural areas and start planting forests and gardens, on land that hasn't been granted to them by the US, and working just to live or for pleasure. This needs to be en mass, because they can't Waco EVERYONE. This is a sure fire way to immediately encourage a bright future of liberty for our decendents. However, it is not really possible because the North American continent is a wealthy land, in both resources and development, and there is a need for national security (and thus perpetual military-prison-industrial expansion) to fend off the villains created in the School of the Americas, and other such institutions. Al Qaeda is real, and regardless of who created it (Brezezinsky and the CIA or Osama and the gang), it is a group that will not rest until the USA and indeed the whole world are under Sharia law. This was the major problem for communism, and indeed any system of true social equality- How to sustain its revolution in the midst of a nationalist, capitalist, fascist world. Obviously a "temporary" bourgoise, and Perastroyka won't work.

If we did, en mass, just drop out of the system and take what we need, and what is ours as inhabitants of this planet, by the sheer force of numbers, then we (common people just trying to live day by day) would be under daily attack by every terrorist group that the USG could muster, including the remanents of the US military and what ever Mercenary corporations it employs.
The Confederacy is vilified over and over in our schools because of slavery, but they omit 2 very important facts: 1.the Confederacy was far more in line with the constitution than Lincoln's dictatorship was 2.the northern states generally disagreed with slavery for economic reasons, and not liberal, ethical or moral reasons.
That was the last time an armed conflict for private and state liberty, against the Federal Government, could be won.
Now the Fed has particle beam weapons, neutron bombs, and bio-weapons, and god knows what else. And "we" still have hunting rifles and pistols, or no arms at all.

I am angry because I don't think there is any over all social solution, I know there are no material heroes, and I think a lot more people on this planet will be living in abject terror, day to day. People tend to be shocked when I say this, but they are typically not aware of the abject terror that millions of people in the world already live under. They are also unaware that this is the CFR and Trilateral Commission's vision of the future for nearly every state: Global Capitalism and Terrorism are ying and yang. If one gets bigger, then so does the other.
ScienceFictionado
QUOTE(gibbersome @ Sep 11 2008, 12:14 AM) *
Agreed, the guy is over the top, but the core of his argument rings true, that there is too much bureaucracy between the common man and the executive office for there to be any timely response to the people's needs. Better to have stronger local governments.

Haha, I think you should post your comment on the youtube page, you make a very valid point. It seems despite our penchant for piracy, QSS members are as intelligent and thoughtful as any podcast intellectual.

Stephan is against government (since he argues that even a small government will eventually grow large and oppress its citizens), and I would love to see him temper his anarchist tendencies and give Libertarianism a second chance. We can't limit/eliminate the government in one swoop, but we can make little steps to get there.


I dare say it is our penchant for piracy that encourages our capacity to imagine possibility when we are told possibility is far too expensive.
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