Here's where we talk about whatever is on our minds! We only ask one little thing, and that is to try and have some consideration for others when talking about the various weekly shows, PPVs, and anything that could spoil things for any of us fans. So please, if something concerns what was on TV this week, an upcoming PPV and what COULD happen, or things of that nature, use the spoiler tags by clicking the box in the upper left that says "insert special item" and then picking "spoiler". Or, you can do it maunally, like so:



This way we can all talk about whatever we want, and those who do not wish to be spoiled don't have to read it yet can still partake in whatever other garbage is being talked about in here.......which there will be quite a bit of by the way

One more thing to note, when reporting things you may have seen on a website or something of that nature, please use quote tags. We don't need the source where it came from, but when it's concerning things that "other" people are reporting, it is really rather needed so as to not give out confusion that it's those of us who are reporting such things. Yeah, i know we're not, but not everyone knows that.

To do so:

so what did everyone think of the flair retirement angle , so far??

It's alright, but I have a few problems with the way it's being excecuted.
- The 'Lose and Leave' angle takes any suprise out of the endings to the matches, because you know Flair's going to win all his matches before they're even anounced.
- The matches so far, although good, havn't been up to par with what Ric Flair's capable of. These arn't the kind of matches he should have on his final run.
- The whole angle suggests that Ric Flair will lose his 'last ever' match. I feel he deserves to go out with a win, a happy ending.

Thats my opinion anyway.

yea i suppose but the fact that Flair is almost 60 years old , i think he's not up to par cause of his age. ya know?

I don't expect a classic style Flair match, but even in recent history he's performed better. Plus the psychology hasn't been great either.
The whole story is simplistic and dull. I just don't find anything interesting in the story presented.
WWE writers have dropped the ball once again.
Flair's retirement should be a huge thing, but it's not being treated as such.

I like the idea, but agree that it makes his matches predictable, at least outcome-wise. I think it would have been cooler had he issued the challenge to the locker room rather than receiving an ultimatum from Vince. His matches over the past few years or so have been pretty darn good considering how long he's been doing this, but the recent story-line has kinda watered down the performances. I guess on the one hand it's nice to see him featured in his own story line and not simply feuding with one person, or hooked up with another wrestler and just lumped into their feud. On the other hand, I think it'll be a real shame if he really does lose his final match. Not to say that it will diminish his 30+ years of accomplishments, but who wouldn't want to see him leave on a high note?

If I could have it my way...it would be Flair vs HHH at WrestleMania with the title on the line and Flair wins and retires as the Champion of Champions. But Vince McMahon doesn't sign my paychecks (or return my phone calls), so don't hold your breath.

well i think both of you make valid points. on one hand , yes the writers have dropped the ball again. plus i also think that losing his final match would kinda leave him hanging. on the other hand , i don't think it should be with the title on the line, as lets face it - flair hasnt been his best the last 2 years and i think it would only be more right if the younger generation had its spotlight - am i correct? flair is still great and always will be the best there ever was and will be, but its time to move over and let Jeff Hardy/Cena/Orton take hold of the business and try their best to correct it to what it used to be

Yeah the storyline does bore me to be honest.

And also maybe they shoudn't have run it at a time, when they are already doing several other main storylines. I mean it's Ric Flair, I know he doesn't deserve a title shot but his potential career ending matches should get more of the spotlight than they are.

i got something to say about tna, even thou i like it better because its fresh and different am sick of seeing kurt angle win, it was not a bad idea to drop the title to cristian cage, man i bet this kurt angle is pulling the shots back stage and if he was to drop it he would leave.

Well here is my thoughts on Ric Flair's storyline. I think it is a ok to great storyline but they have not really had any good matches yet and I'm hoping his match with MVP at Royal Rumble would be the first one. Now I am going out and saying that we all know where this storyline is heading. Flair's last match will be at Wrestlemania in Orlando and it will be The Nature Boy Ric Flair taking on The Boss Mr. Mcmahon in some sort of Carrer vs Job match or something like that. Flair then will lose to Vince and then maybe go to become a General Manager, lol.

i was discussing this with my mate last night
and im hoping that they dont drag it out to mania for the reason that each week you know that he is gonna win so there is no point watching
if they do drag it out to mania i cant see who he will face
as they will prob have edge vs undertaker (streak vs streak)
and triple h vs who ever for the titles
and i think 1 title match will prob be a triple threat or 4 way
also they will have orton retire him at some point just to have the legend killer angle again!!

yea im pretty sure it will be at WM24 versus McMahon..... which is bollox..

I agree with the Vince angle. It makes the most sense and it would be a great honor for any wrestler to have a match with Vince on their biggest card of the year as many have said so in the past. With that said...does anyone really think that he will retire? If so, then it would only be from the ring, cause i'm sure Ric is already picking out his desk at titan towers and getting his name put on a door.lol. Knowing the wwe, they will bring him back sometime down the road for one of those big angle matches at a ppv (possible future wrestlemania ) like they do Foley or SGT. Slaugther...witch would be cool. Flair is the man and has done just as much ( maybe more ) as hogan has for the business. How about this, could this also be a story line to get him into the hall of fame this year? If not, then you can bet he will be inducted next year. Any thoughts on this?

I don't think they should have his last match, be against Vince. They need someone who compliments his style more. I mean let's face it, Vince doesn't really have any in-ring tallent.
I think they should hold off on HOF til next year, it wont make any sense to induct him the night Before he retires.
And as for the Hogan comment, Ric Flair has done far far more for the professional wrestling industry. Hogan was nothing more than big name. Hogan wasn't even comparable to Flair as far as talent and hard work go. And unlike Flair, Hogan didn't spend time bringing younger talent up and putting others over in their matches. Flair gave back to the industry and deserves more in his final run.

very good point matty densley! but i think it would be cool if he got inducted this year. come on, face it - it would be cool if he had his final run with a hall of fame spot along with that. then that would be the coolest weekend of his life!

You made some good points mattdens but the fact of the matter is this, it's sports entertainment and not wrestling. If it was just wrestling, then you would be 100% correct on the fact that Vince has limited in ring talent but since it's sports entertainment...well, he has more talent then you can shake a stick at. He didnt get to where he is by not having any in ring talent. Vince is the show and he can make or break any talent...which brings us to the Flair and Hogan thing. Flair is the man and has brought more in ring talent to the biz as far as pure wrestling goes. Hogan has it hands down as far as bringing more to the show although. ( WHEN I REFER TO HOGAN, IT'S THE SAME AS REFERING TO VINCE AS A WRESTLER IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PROMOTER AND DOES WHAT THE PROMOTER SAYS OR WHAT HIS CONTRACT WILL ALLOW). Hogan (and Vince) changed an era in wrestling with the rock&roll era in the 80's (1985) and then once again in the mid 90's with the attitude era on raw and the NWO on nitro ( with Hogan being the center piece). While flair may have held the title all those times and did a lot for the biz, it was hogan who was reaching the masses threw more television and more high profile matches.....meaning more people was able to view his matches population wise. ( fact). Flair would even tell you the same thing. as he has before in enterviews regarding the subject. Hogan has been putting over the younger talent for a few years now..just go back and look at some of his previous wwe matches he has had on ppv and smackdown and raw. I remember because i about shit my pants when he started to put younger guys over for the future of the biz,, did'nt seem like it was ever going to happen.Hogan has that certain something and that something is carisma! Like it or not, the man can still sell out an arena better then anyone else. Even though he may only have what..like 5 or 6 moves in his arsonal.... he still sells tickets like no other and thats what it's all about, people just seem to relate to him. No matter how you look at it, they are two of the best talents to ever grace the ring and we should all be greatful to that fact.

I got no problem with Vince, or his lack of ring talent (same goes for Hogan). But Flair will always be remembered for being a great 'worker'. Which is why, although I like the storyline, I feel Flair's last match should be with someone, like Finlay, Regal, Triple H, HBK, someone who can perform a great in-ring, classic, Ric Flair match.
As for my previous comments about Hogan, they were not intended to knock his career. Few have the level of charisma and marketability as Hogan had. The point I was trying to make was Hogan didn't have the kind of schedual Flair did whilst in the NWA, Flair wrestled every single day in long matches up and down the country, Flair was bringing guy's up through out his career (Steamboat, Sting, Magnum T.A, etc, etc, etc). Hogan helped out his close mates and no-one else, the only time, he was put in a position where he had to start helping the young talent get 'over' (2003?) he quickly bailed.
The sucess of Hogan's big run in the 80's was in my opinion more Vince's doing, it was the whole product that sold, not just Hogan. His early day's in WCW certainly wasn't as sucessful, it wasn't until Bischoff had the whole NWO idea, Hogan joined and turned heel, which was a big thing, but it wasn't Hogan who got the group over, he was just the centre piece. Yeah Hogan was a big star, but he didn't give back to the buisness and people that made him.

Well done. I see where you are coming from and you made some really good points. Hogan is pretty self absorbed but it was Vince who had the final say on any thing..or whatever promoter was in charge. It's nice to talk to someone who really seems to know their wrestling. later.

I was actually thinking that they should hold off his HOF until WM 25, but I still have a feeling that we are going to see Vince Mcmahon vs Ric Flair at Wrestlemania 24 in a Street Fight. If you look at history, Vince have faced Hogan, and HBK in a street fight match and I have a feeling we are going to see it again, I hope I am wrong though.

January 19th, 08 Topic Is: Who Will Win The Royal Rumble?

i think triple H will win it just because apart from horns hes the only wrestler who has the story built up with the whole not in it then in it angle.

also i imagen that the winner was orginally going to be mr kennerdy (before the whole vinces son angle had to be changed to horns)

I also think Triple H will win it. I also thought of something but the fans would hate it if they did it. They could have HHH lose his Rumble spot this week on RAW and then have Hornswoggle win the rumble and give it to Triple H, lol. Sounds stupid but WWE would do that if they want to. I hope it dont happen like that but I think either HHH or HBK.

If I were to guess, i'd say Triple H. But that's the thing about the Rumble, anyone can win. There's never anyone you know will definately win, going in to it.

What I would love to see is Undertaker when it for the 2nd time in a row and take on Edge in a streak vs winning streak at Wrestlemania 24 since Edge has never lost a singles match at the venue and the deadman is 15 & 0. That would put a lot on the line and the build up to it would be awsome. Plus, Undertaker needs to get some revenge on Edge after all the crap Edge has done to him last year and this would also be a good way for Taker to finally get his due justice.

I'd certainately love to see a Taker/Edge feud, but the problem with them having a title match at Mania is that you know Taker isn't going to lose. WWE wont break Takers streak (at least I hope not).
The streak is something that will give Taker the opportunity to come back for one-off matches after he retires from full time work.
Plus Taker realy doesn't need any titles, he makes the company (and himself) tons of money regardless of who he faces, what position on the card he is or what titles he has. Where as someone like Batista or Lashley need the titles and the pushes to stay 'over'.
As for the Taker/Edge feud, they work well together, the characters work well together, there's a history there (as you mentioned), it could be one of the best angles WWE have ever done.
If they do, i'd like to see it last along time, an entire year maybe, do everything (First Blood, Street Fight, HIAC... erm... Dildo on a Pole... whatever), realy draw it out like they did with the Taker/Kane and Taker/Orton feuds.

Never can tell who's going to win.
But for a laugh, I'd love to see some divas in there. Just to show how rubbish and out of their depth SOME of them would be. Did Chyna ever go in?

Chyna was in both 1999 an 2000 Royal Rumble matches.
In 99 she entered at #30 and lasted 35 seconds before being eliminated by 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin.
And in 2000 she entered at #17 and lasted 37 seconds before being eliminated by Bossman.

didnt chyna throw out mark henry in 99 lol
when he was sexual chocolate

also in the same one "big daddy v"(what ever his name was then) got his sole taken from the undertaker

NO DIVAS! I actually like the Royal Rumble and if u put divas into it, it would turn to shite

Please , please Vince McMahon, don't let Hornswoggle win. It would be like putting divas into a royal rumble ( ... see above sentence )

Taker vs Edge is gonna happen at WM24 , even if Taker doesnt win the rumble. I would hate to see Batista in the main event - once Again!

Triple H is a big contender for winning it this year. At the moment , they seem to have alot of trust in Finlay so I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the final four at the end of the rumble. Another is Umaga - but i doubt he'll win...
Mvp, Mr.Kennedy, Hbk , the list is pretty big.
But for some reason i have this bad feeling that Batista is gonna win, what with the way they're making him out at the moment.

So my pick is Batista

Correct.
Big Daddy V was at the time known as Mabel, got abducted by Taker in the Rumble, had some kind of ritual performed on him and then became Viscera. Weird Shit.

they should bring back the minestry of darkness
did they ever explain why it isnt together anymore

Yeah, well, the way I see it is that it is going to be someone who won the Rumble before. I can see HHH, Undertaker, Batista, and maybe a few that have not won it before winning it this year. my money is on HHH or Taker.

nah its not gonna be taker... considering the fact that he is nearing down his career , i dont think they would let him win it 2 years in a row.

like i said. its gonna be batista..... which im kinda dissapointed about..

the only reason why i cant see batista winner the rumble is because of the streak vs streak match (edge vs undertaker)
if wwe do go with this angle and have batista win the rumble then he would have to face the raw champion and wwe cant risk taking a big name from smackdown

also does any1 else think that it would be better if smackdown and raw merged back and had the wrestles on both like the good old days , i mean its annoying when raw has something good on it like jeff hardy and orton 2 weeks in a row and you have to wait a week to find out whats next with little mention off it on smackdown

With all the changing about and interbrand feuds, I don't see much point of keeping Raw, Smackdown and ECW seperate. Merging them would provide for a better Tag-team, Diva and Cruiserweight devisions, would give a broader range of matches and would force fans to watch both shows (alot of fans just watch Raw or just watch Smackdown). The only forseeable problem would be the writers focusing on using the same talent on both shows each week and over-saturating the product.
I'd like to see all three brands re-merged at some point, doesn't need to be in the near future, but eventually.

yeah i feel something has to be done about the tag teams soon as there just seems to be no interesting teams london and kendrick were awesome on smackdown but havnt done anything on raw cant even remember the las time i seen them.

( not to be taken seriously ) check this out !!! The rumble will be won by Jimmy Wang Yang in a fluke as it comes down to him and Batista. As Batista lifts to throw him out, an angry fan throws their coke at the animal from the front row and nails him in the eyes. This causes Batista to lose his footing and fall into the ropes and drop Jimmy on the way as he goes down. Jimmy skims the ropes bad as he's dropped and lands on the inside of the ring as Batista flips over due to the fact that he lost his footing from the coke supplied by the angry fan. A confused Yang looks on in bewilderment and does not know what to think, but being the professional that he is, decides to sell it as the show must go on. The next week on Smackdown, Vickie decides to give Edge an easy title defence against Funaki. Yang shows up and gets involved in the match hording off the Edge twins ( as i like to call them) to give Funaki a fair chance. While twin one is on the side of the ring trying to help Edge by distracting the ref, twin two throws some brass knuks to Edge but Yang hurries in the ring and hits Edge from behind and gives the brass knuks to Funaki who uses them for the first time in his life. Your winner and new WWE champ, FUNAKI!!!! CAN ANYONE COME UP WITH A MATCH OUTCOME AS WACKY AND UNREALISISTIC AS THIS ONE?

I've been hoping for the brands to merge for along time now. I think it would be allot better. One World Champ / one Tag Team Champion / one Cruiser Weight Champion.
If anything, keep ECW brand separate. And they need to make it allot more extreme........... hence the name.

sorry guys didnt get time to go on computer today but Monday's Discussion will be about : AJ Styles' choice of going with Kurt Angle

the story line makes me laugh for the reason that kurt seems happy to let his wife flirt with AJ in front of him.

in terms of wrestling its good having aj with one of the main 2 guys either kurt of cage because you know that when he is infolved in a big match that he is going to do a ace stunt that takes other people out .

i would of gone with cage not angle personally.

AJ has great chemistry with Kurt in the ring and on the mic. They can learn a lot just from being together in the long run. Kurts wife ( ex-stripper...and a hot one i might add ) brings to the table also. Seeing her work AJ was some funny stuff as AJ acts like a nervous kid whos about to get his shoot at taking the high school prom queen out on a date and will do anything to impress her. Kurt acts like it's no big deal and seems to be whipped by her. And then when you throw Jermy Borash ( sp ? ) into the mix, you have classic moments just waiting to explode during ever episode. These four work great off each other and I hope they keep them all together for a little while because there is some great stories that can be told from these four. AJ will go much further with Kurt by his side.

Personally I thought, AJ Styles was one of the young guy's TNA were trying to build around... Obviously not!
The idea of this TNA star deciding between 2 teams headed by former WWE stars just goes to show that the higher-up's in TNA realy don't give a funk about their loyal, original roster of talents. They'd rather give shit loads to former WWE, guy's who left the company because, either they weren't good enough, couldn't draw a dime or had too many personal problems affecting their job.
I'm a big fan of both Angle and Christian, but AJ Styles has #1 done more for the company, #2 has been there from the begining and #3 is as big a star in TNA as Angle and Christian. AJ should not be a stooge of either. He was better off with Christian because although Christian was the ring-leader of the group, theirs was more informal more like a team of equals.
The story is somewhat amusing (suprising for TNA), but for god's sake TNA, give AJ something better to do, and stop pushing nobodies over your own home-grown talent (eg, AJ, Joe, etc.).

would just like to quickly get what people felt about the sharkboy 4 parter on tna i found it hard to watch as a tna fan as i was thinking people who turned on and seen it who was tuning in for the first time would of turned it over straight away

I agree, it was stupid and they shouldnt have done it. It was a waste of air time and the Austin thing didnt help set it off either. Sharkboy does have a huge fan base (believe it or not) but skits like that will keep him a jobber forever!

They were funny, but ran too long.
If they were shorter segments and if the wrestler 'cameos' actually made sense (ie, why was LAX there?), they'd be alright as a light-hearted buffer between matchs, adverts, etc.
But just like the Xmas thing and the New Years thing they just had to over do it.
And as 'thumper712003' said Shark Boy does have a fan-base, just not that big. As for the jobber comment, I don't think any amount of bad skits can lower the status of Shark Boy, it's pretty much as low as it can get (Uber-jobber status).

I agree that he should have a better spot then what they are giving him but as it stands...it's Dixie Carters vision and company. To bad it could'nt be the fans. Her bottom line is the same as when talent left WWF for WCW, KEEP THE RECONIZABLE FACES IN THE SPOTLIGHT. You got to give AJ, Sabin, samoa Joe, Alex Shelly and a few other guys in TNT credit for what they have done with what they have been given. In my opinion, great talents, but all these guys could'nt cut it in WWE as they was nothing more then jobbers there who were losing to the mid-carders on the b-shows ( heat, velocity). Kaz was in this group also. You can see their matches on certain sights. I went back threw my wrestling library and found almost all of the TNA guys jobbing to WWE guys like 5 to 7 years ago. Angle is considered pure greatness in the biz and i'm sure guys like AJ know their place and are happy to take a backseat to them for awhile and learn knowing their time will come. ( or come again as with AJ as he has been champ twice now). The overall goal is to make money for the company to pay the bills, for them, as employees, they dont care who has the belt or who is in the main event, they just want to be apart of a winning team. Most of the guys will tell you that having a belt is a drag as it's one more thing they have to lug threw the airports and stuff, although i would'nt mind checking it in. I'm just happy we get to see all the talent on a weekly basis no matter who is on top, I guess you would have to say I agree with the wrestlers as the ones I've personally met and talked to all seem to say this and agree. We as fans just look at things differently then they do. They just do what they are told ( unless they have creative control in their contracts and that is getting to be a rare thing these days since WCW is gone) just the same as most of us would do with our jobs. They are all only as good as their promoter will let them appear to be. Most of the guys in WWE are only allowed to do certain moves and they need to be checked out first by road agents and stuff. Hell, even Undertaker has to get permission to use his tombstone before a match. Some guys cant even use the moves in WWE that made them famous, just ask Gregory Helms about his vertibreaker move and see what he says. I think some guys in WWE are to good to wrestle there because their talents could be showcased somewhere else but thats just the way it goes. These guys just want to live the American dream and make as much money as possible and they know by doing it, they will have to take a backseat or be a sidekick to someone else who has more starpower so they can make more money as a whole. Not to worry, their time will come shortly, we just have to be patient and let the build up happen. Hey, even Hogan, The Rock and Austin were jobbers at a time.

no offence guys, but try to keep your posts a little shorter than the above ( sorry thumper.. )

its just , the majority of ppl who come here are only gonna read normal sized posts and if u post something that is extremely long, some ppl will just ignore it

im not saying dont post at all , just keep them short and sweet

Okay?

well my opinion of AJ Styles is that he is most definitely on the same page as Angle/Christian . He should be in the title picture , at least some of the time. The fact that Kurt is always the champ is just , ridiculous.

Believe me i'm not gonna sit here and say that AJ styles is World Champion material, he isn't, one day maybe. But here is a guy who is over with the audience, original roster member, and a good (and improoving) talent. They should be grooming him to be a future champion. Instead they have made the character into a blabbering idiot, a stooge, he's going backwards.
My only problem with the younger talent in TNA (eg, the X Devision), is the lack of psychology, eg, not selling, not acting like it is a real situation, not doing moves that make sense (ie, jumping off a 15 foot cage with you last breath or Petey Williams move 'Canadian Destroyer'? which is physically impossible to do without you opponent helping you). Somebody needs to teach them this. But as far as the 'Star-Power' thing goes, alot of the young TNA (and WWE) guy's have it, but because they're too focused on diving off shit and because the higher-up's arn't giving them the appropriate sale time (eg, promos, skits, mic time etc.) and character development, it's never gonna show.
The problem with TNA and WWE alike is that the put 95% of the efforts on the top 2 feuds and an inadequate amount to the under card (aka the bulk of the show). Guy's like AJ and Joe should dominate they're own spots on the roster until they're ready like Austin did (96/97), like Michaels did (93-95) and like Jeff Hardy did (02/03) and is doing now. Other guy's like Jake Robberts and Roddy Piper while in WWE held their positions on the card without any intention of going any further. I hate the way guy's are given a huge push one monthe and then jobbing the next, it's ridiculous.
My fear is that just like WCW they're putting all there focus on guy's who are growing stale and guy's who have no real loyalty to the company. WCW came to a point when after all these so-called 'big WWF stars' flopped, retired or quit, WCW had no young talent to take the 'Tourch', Benoit didn't wanna stay, Booker T wasn't prepared for main event status, DDP's reign came too late. They had no-one left to use as the 'Top Guy' but Jarett, and the reason he got so much heat as a champion was because no-one thaught he was good enough. That lowered WCW's credibility because all you had was really young guy's who are nobodies and really old guy's who are past it.
TNA need to keep a cycle of talent going, AJ is too well established in that company to play a 'follower' character (regardless of what happens back stage).
You are right about guy's like AJ in WWE, he'd get burried on the low-card and then get lost in the shuffle, like most other guy's. But that isn't right. Thats just to do with what Vince McMahon sees as being a wrestler (not jacked-up, not employed), which is something that hinders WWE from doing better. Vince prefers puppets like Batista, guy's who need a full set of instructions in order to make any money, guy's who can't go anywhere else and be sucessful.
TNA has made a name for itself by showcasing more average size guy's and with the fall-out from the Benoit thing and the spotlight on wrestling's drug problem this is probibly the best direction to go.

New Topic

#1 What Do You Feel Were The Best Things About Professional Wrestling In 2007?
-Who impressed you?
-What storylines/angles did you enjoy?
-What were your favourite matches?

#2 What Do You Feel Were The Worst Things About Professional Wrestling In 2007?
-Who didn't amuse you?
-What storylines/angles did you Hate?
-What did you feel just plain sucked?