The God Who Wasn't There

Thank you for posting that!

I'm still waiting for the doc that proves Jesus did exist, just was a black woman who was homosexual. Hmmm.

"Jesus sort of rose from the dead" Lol---Oh noes! His head didn't come back :X

i dont think any proof would come between christians and their faith, they are to happy in their fantasy world of angels and heaven.
I dont think anyone on this forum has not broken atleast 1 of the 10 commandments so we are probably all going to hell, isnt that sweet from a god that is supposed to be loving and forgiving? and how many times has the bible been rewritten? some of the stories they tell are so far fetched it makes me wonder if they were all high! lol

and christians put up some really un-logical crazy arguments and excuses when it comes to "god doesnt exist" they say really weird and not normal things that are erm basically pretty pathetic.. its kinda amusing listening to them rant about god they say some insane stuff! it's almost as if they are brain washed... well, they are, they were born and bread in religion and lose all sense of logical thinking.

and 1 thing that annoys me is when they say "i know you do believe in god" lol ofcourse i do, i also believe in father christmas and power rangers...

"I dont think anyone on this forum has not broken atleast 1 of the 10 commandments"--Hmm thou shalt not steal rings a bell. XD

I wouldn't pass judgment on any system of beliefs until you get a bit more worldly. To blatantly insult, ridicule, and belittle anyones beliefs is something small minded people do. Your not small minded are you? The fact of the matter is every belief can be punched full of holes. Science for example is no longer the light which shows the way. Scientists have discovered a way great way of generating revenue through creating complicated versions of the universe, which needs years of study to decipher, and base the entire system on what? Thats right faith.

Science and Religion are no different.

interesting post... props...
looks like good quality too...

LOL "Science and Religion are no different". <--------- Wrong. Certain aspects of science are based on guess work, trial & error and hunches. Scientists freely admit this too. Are you saying religions are based on these? Do religious people freely admit this? Religious people would beg to differ and i would too, religions are based on lies.

Good follow up to Zeitgiest!! loved the ending!!

Science and religion are both languages for explaining the universe or another way of saying it is an attitude for looking at the universe. What you are doing is taking science's values and trying to apply them to religion, that doesn't work. Science's only worth is as a universal language for explaining measurable occurrences. Thing is people have been doing this for thousands of years.

Think about it this way. Someone wants to bake a loaf of bread. Science can explain how it is that the bread turns from ingredients of flour, yeast, and sugar to a loaf. However you don't necessarily need science in order to bake the bread. Science is good at the how but it's really bad at answering the whys. For instance can science explain why water boils at 100 degrees Celsius? Why not 80 degrees Celsius? Now once science moves into the realm of the unmeasurable it instantly becomes an article of faith just like religion.

Religion is a totally different animal. Religion, in its purest form, attempts to better a persons life by first humbling them and then by giving them a purpose. For billions of people it works, why ridicule it? Would our world really be better without religion (and don't give me the argument of religious wars, and intolerance. These exist just find without religion. I mean look at you guys, intolerant of religion.)?

I'm not against science or for religion. I'm just tired of people bashing religion like sheep because they are blinded by science and told it is better.

Umm, scientists can explain why water boils at 100 C (or at sea level anyway). It all has to do with equilibrium; depending on the surrounding atmosphere, water will boil at different temperatures. It all depends on how high the pressure is in the air. At sea level, water boils at 100 because the air pressure is that so the vapor pressure in the water needs to be at a certain level in order to boil. When enough heat is applied to a pot of water, this will cause the water to go out of equilibrium, thusly forcing some to evaporate.

That is a how description of water boiling, an observation that at certain air pressure water boils at certain temperatures.

if my opinion makes me small minded then i'm small minded yay! what do i win??
and isnt it the religous people that say we are going to hell and we are crazy and we are stupid ect ect ect for not believing in god.. but i guess that doesnt make them small minded because they are "special"

There is no religion on earth that says you will go to hell for not believing in god. If you are referring to Christianity or Muslim they are promoting their lifestyle that serves as a path to heaven (Judaism doesn't believe in heaven). Only Christianity of all religion focuses on hell as a deterrent. You are grouping religions together into one lump sum and making sweeping generalizations. How are you different than the religious man who snubs science? You think you are enlightened because you believe in something different?

No, that is why. How to boil water would be "by adding heat".

Is it impossible to observe why something happens?

Your thinking superficially. Think more conceptually. Why does water boil at 100 degrees? Why is there air pressure? Why is there gravity? Why is there matter? See my pattern of thinking. My whole point is to show you that science can only make observations of known measurable events. It has no other use. You won't find ANY truths or whys by blindly following science. Religion is no different and falls from similar shortcomings. The real weakness in both of these concepts is the people who adopt it. We tend to mutate concepts that start out with one purpose and end up completely different. Science for example was never intended as a substitute for religion. It was simply meant to serve as a way of explaining the universe in a more organized and measurable way.

So you're saying that because science can't explain why matter exists, that it is useless? Yes we can only know for a fact that something is true if we can observe it, but the point of science is to explain the universe, and it does that. You will find the truth of nature through science, it is the only way to understand how and why the universe works as it does. And no, science wasn't intended as a substitute to religion, but when religion is used to try and make the universe into something its not, something contradicting things we can observe, there is the problem with it.

And how does someone blindly follow science? It isn't a way of life, theres nothing to follow. If you believe what science has discovered to be true, what is the harm? Science itself is nothing more than the way the universe works.

I'm going to play your tactics...

1)Why is bashing religion bad? (What ever answer you give, i will ask "why" and will continue to ask "why" to every subsequent answer)
2)Why should we not "blindly" follow science, even though we don't? (See above in brackets)
3)Why is religion no different from science? (Same rules apply)
4)Grass is green, why? (Same rules apply)
5)Ice cream melts, why? (Same rules apply)
6)Why does asking why imply you are asking why? (Same rules apply)

I'm not saying science is bad at all. I was at one time a science major during my pre-med days. Science is extremely useful and a wonderful discipline to study. However, there are aspect of science that can be likened to religion in that it requires an article of faith.

What I mean by blindly following science is the that people automatically assume science is the only truth when in reality they have no idea what the universe's true nature really is. People blindly accept the latest greatest theories as gospel.

I'm not bashing science I had attempted to make that clear many many times all I'm trying to do is to get people from clinging so tightly to science as the only article of faith they believe in. I try to do the exact same for the ultra religious.


This statement is extremely revealing. You have become so entrenched into what is considered truth that you can't distinguish it from other way's of life. I'm not trying to insult you...just get you to think.

Even though you are being sarcastic this line of question is excellent. Why be afraid to ask why? Socrates many years ago did the same thing and was extremely ridiculed in his time. He asked the whys in an attempt to clear everyones mind from the entrenched belief system they had acquired. Do you think you are so different, enlightened, and advanced than the Greeks were 2400 years ago? You are doing what all people have done in every aspect of human history, clinging tightly to the belief structure their society has spoon fed them.

Hold on.... fruitcake



First of all...
Judaism isn't a living, breathing thing that has opinions and likings. It's a religious regime centered around the Torah (the Old Testiment).

Second of all...
Of course Jews believe in the afterlife! WTF? Heaven is spoken about constantly in the Torah.



Science has been adopted as a religion of sorts. It takes DECADES for a naysayer of scientific BELIEFS to get their theory looked at seriously, and it's usually after they die. Hold on.. does that remind you of any mythical characters? Possibly.. the one in the Bible?
You question any of the "Bibles" out there of science, and you're in for a firestorm. Especially if you have something to lose, like a Ph.D.
Someone stands up and says "Hey, I think DNA is altered according to our interactions with our environment." And the man is ridiculed and his life destroyed... for thinking differently. We're only looking into that now, thanks to the wonderful work of Bruce Lipton (Ph.D, if you're curious).

The universe is one big fucking mystery. Admit it. And we all come up with our own little paradigms (science, god, etc), our own little stories (Garden of Eden, The Big Bang). And some people are just too fucking lazy, and take to listening to others instead.
"What should I do with my life, doctor/pastor/fr./Rabbi/Professor/GOVERNMENT?". No one takes responsibility for thinking for themselves, and we end up with religions.

Instead of people singing in Latin wearing robes of gold and red, we now have men writing their thesis for the next edition of the journal in white coats.

Science is not a religion.
But it does have a following.

The Bible is not a religion.
But it does have a following.


Grow the fuck up, and make up your own goddamned minds!

Hmm? That didn't really make much sense. Truth is a way of life?

And can "way" have a possession?

Please elaborate.

let me hop into this discussion since most of the athiests on here are being all "polite" and "sciency"

Fuck religeons they are a bunch of cultist brain washing money scavenging assholes, they should all be burned at the stake,
or given lobotomies so that they can properly "live in their own little world" bunch of fucking ignorant follow the leader never think for themselves SLAVES

I know the answer to the question "why"?....... Answer = Because

Hmm, I think it is that which gives atheists and science a bad name. Religion in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Its just outdated and being perverted by radicals.

Everything about you, the way you think, talk, dress, act, everything that makes you you is heavily influenced by society and its culture. As a consequence society has the power to shape your belief to what truth is. Right now western culture is moving away from the epoch of religious truth and moving into the scientific epoch. There will me another epoch after science which will fundamentally alter how we perceive the universe just as science is doing to religion. Truth as it stands now is synonymes with science and no matter how often science is wrong people will blindly follow it just as they did religion. Thats about as good as I can explain what I meant.

Dude.. you could have been in this flic casted as another religious doublespeak pulpit puppet. You have mentioned several times that science is like religion.. and mentioned faith as the reason. Bullshit. Science works on factual evidence supporting actual conclusions. Science on occasion will have a "theory", but will label such as so until it can either prove or disprove.. Should have learned that one in grade school science class.
Religion works on hearsay thru passed down oral or written stories. Shows no actual proof and demands the listener to "believe" or"be damned" without a shred of solid or factual evidence and will not even hint that their belief system is based on a theory or that they should be required to have this proof or evidence before making claims of fact.
Now show just one example of where science has claimed something to be fact with no evidence, or having been proved factually wrong, continued with such as a statement of fact. Just one...

First, I like the line of logic pjking. Why is why why; funny. Next, whats up with all the ur atheist ur religious crap? Anyone who can say there is absolutely no god is as closed minded as someone who says their religion is the only way to 'heaven'. I find it impossible to even assign a probability to an existance of god so I don't bother. The beauty of leaning toward the agnostic. To put my two cents in on the science part, being a physics major if that counts for anything, all ideas that are not assigned as fundamental units are theory. We say Newton's laws but this is very decieving. Newton's 'laws' break down with respect to the quantum level and again when at relativistic frames. All science has ever been, and will always be is theory. Our best description of the universe around us constantly being put to the test, finally debunked, and then refined. I personally see more truth in this line of thought than that of someone forcing unsubstantiated claims of things that can never be proved or disproved. If anything the hatred that religion ultimately manifests itself as points to its falsehood, assuming a 'loving god'.

String theory, Black holes, worm holes, Special relativity, Neutron stars, dark matter, dark energy, and many more. I know you said one but here ya go. Research each of these "theories" and you'll realize a great many of them exists "because they have to." Without them other theories would just fall apart.

Its all about choice. If you prefer science to religion all power to you, all I'm saying is don't belittle someones faith because you are so wrapped up in your version of the universe. Religion doesn't manifest hatred, people do. Wars, murder, crime and suffering are a result of people not beliefs.

All theories, and so claimed.. you're reading comprehension is as limited as your religious view. Would you like to try again??
I said or asked... "Now show just one example of where science has claimed something to be fact with no evidence, or having been proved factually wrong, continued with such as a statement of fact. Just one..."

Fact is the key word here. not a "theory"

Disbelief in god by atheists is formed by reasonable doubt. Saying you can't proof it one way or another is true, but you can't really ever prove anything especially a negative. It's the same way it works in a court of law. With the evidence we currently have, any reasonable person would disbelieve in a god (whether one exists or not) because the evidence suggests he doesn't exists at this time.

Get off the fence and stop being an agnostic. Make up your mind one way or another, if someone proves one way or another in your life time he exists, you are to put your hands and say sorry guys i was wrong and change your mind

Yes but they still admit to being theories. No ones saying science has all the answers, we are saying if something has to exists, science will "THEORIZE" that it does until it's proven either way. You are making out like science theory is the same as religious dogma and it's not as science theory openly admits it's speculation and it's only a belief.... HENCE THE WORD THEORY. Does it say The Holy Bile:A 2000 Year Old Theory? No it's portrayed as an absolute truth.

But you have to admit religion is part of a lot of wars, murders, crimes and suffering. Since we can't simply get rip of people to lower the number of instances, why not get rid of religion? It wont stop all the suffering, but there will be less for sure

With the evidence we currently have, any reasonable person would disbelieve in a god (whether one exists or not) because the evidence suggests he doesn't exists at this time.


Funny, this is exactly what im talking about. What is the evidence that It doesn't exist? No evidence either way.

Its actually your way of expression that makes you "look" small minded.If you would have done your research on religion and supported your criticism with relevant facts then maybe someone would have taken you seriously.

As for science is concerned,i believe in science and am currently doing an engineering major,i have read alot about astronomy,and you will be puzzled that Science cannot explain alot of things.In fact in some certain situations the laws of science all break down.(Black holes are good examples of this,where matter has infinite density,time stops and gravity is faster than light.)

Am not saying that religion has answers to everything,but trying to discredit it and imposing your own self beliefs is uncalled for.If you want to be an Atheist,be one and shut up.Billions of people in the world chose to belief in a higher power,God,being a minority can surely hurt your ego.

with the evidence we have any reasonable person would disbelief in God?so your saying the billions of people in the world who belief in him are not reasonable?retarded?

Unreasonable and irrational yes. Retarded? Maybe some are /shrug

What evidence is there father Christmas, goblins, elves and fairies don't exist? Oh that's right, the same evidence that can be applied to god.

Now that is a very helpful answer!

I guess since your rational and reasonable, i can infer that if you took an IQ test (or any exam to test intelligence) with a religious person you would score higher than him/her?i would expect you to beat about 4 billion people.

IQ/intelligence isn't a measure of rationality.

First of all, you seem to be confusing the word "truth" and "belief".

Yes, society has a heavy influence on people, but that has nothing to do with science.

Once again, science is nothing more than the pursuit of knowledge in the way the universe works. Anything to do with culture and society is a utilization of science, and not even such fringe, theoretical science as string theory. All the science that impacts society and the way we live is TRUE, or it wouldn't work now would it?

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

compared to science:

-Science does concern the nature of the universe, though nothing to do with superhuman. The creation of the universe could be considered faith, but is represented as so. (Though after so many years, people might think that something like the big bang is a FACT, while it isn't said to be.)

-Devotion? Don't think so.

-Rituals? XD

-Morals? Nope.

If you want to believe something someone says because they call it a theory you are more than willing. However you are missing my point completely and you'll probably never get. You ask any scientists, ANY scientist, and they will agree with what I'm saying about trends that are infecting various disciplines. The fact that you are using this argument shows me you probably never studied any science, otherwise you wouldn't use an argument that really makes you look ignorant.

synonyms: Theory, belief, faith, best guess, hunch, philosophy

Antanyms: fact, proof, reality

Just because something is called a theory doesn't mean it is considered fact in academia. Just because your high school science teacher taught it as fact doesn't mean it is so. Science can only prove so much, so much in this universe is unobservable and the gaps are filled with "theories."

So the question is why are scientists making such outlandish theories based on very little or no evidence? Because they are expected to have all the answers so they give their opinion on what might be happening or causing a certain event, much like religion did thousands of years ago. Explain the universe on the information they currently have. Do the religious cling too tightly to their beliefs and can't/won't believe in anything else? Definitely, I'm not arguing that. But so are you.

I wish that were true. However science does so much more than that. Science influences how people perceive the universe and science has no tolerance for other systems of belief. Science ridicules religion, forces kids to study it at the sacrifice of job skills, rely on drugs and therapy to get through life, everything you do is influenced by science. It permeates throughout our society so much so you can't even see it since because its always been there. Science IS a way of life, a way of thinking, a way of being, make no mistake.

Thats the same evidence that can be applied to a great many scientific theories.

Mate that's my point, theories are not considered fact and that's why a posted the link about theories (to back up that point). I've never claimed them to be fact or that i believe any. For the record i hate the theory of evolution (as is documented on this very board). It seems like your faith that i believe in these theories and consider them fact has taken hold of you

That's why i disbelieve most of these theories. Show me anywhere on this board where i claimed theories to be fact or that i believe in them..... Straw man

I wasn't trying to comment on your beliefs and I don't care really. What I was trying to show was that just because an idea has the word Theory next to it that it instantly makes it better than any religious idea. Thats it. People are so against religion they blindly ridicule it in favor of an equally mysterious scientific idea. All I'm saying is they are indistinguishable.

No they aren't. By something being called a theory, it's leaving it's self open to the possibility of being wrong and anybody who knows the meaning of the word knows this. If religion/theism would openly admit that they were theories, i'd have a lot less problem with them