http://imdb.com/title/tt0818682/

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-87...81&hl=en-CA

I thought this one was very informative... but is it as is said in the vid... to controversial for westerners to discuss...

It is indeed my friend, freedom of expression (speech) is now a story from the past.

Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

*sigh* another one-sided documentary...

This is coming together in an all to familiar pattern. This is a rabid wolf in sheep's clothing... and nobody wants to cry wolf... untill all the lambs are dead...

These people have obviously forgotten that even Christianity has propagandized war of the "holy" kind in order to fight of the "evil" men, now we're just doing this as a multi-cultural/national team. This is not to say that terrorists are terrible, but in that statement i dare not say that we aren't either. We're both fucked up but we look at this all on one side of the looking glass.

...what we learned today is...

...islam belief is bad,christian/catholic belief is good...

...riddle me this...

...so to be a jihadist is to be a crusader...


...open minds welcome...

Maybe that's what you learned... I believe the message was that organized religion is bad in any form.. and that some forms are worse than others.. and that the branches of some of these forms of organized religion that teach hate, intolerance, and violence towards others are the worst. The worst of the worst thou.. is that as of lately.. on a subject that has been for the most part a mutualy agreed taboo, do not disparage another faith.. has gone by the wayside for some of these saber rattling throat cutters who believe their numbers and newly attained political power gives them good cause and immunity to speak out so. I wish they would bring on this "armegeddon" they so lovingly speak of.. so once and for all such delusional assholes would either wipe themselves off the planet or lower their numbers so that they can then be monitored, medicated or managed in a safe for the rest of us manner.

This is a really excellent documentary that intelligently exposes the politically correct bullshit that's said on Islam, I seriously advise anyone who has any interest in preserving the Western Liberal Democratic model to watch this documentary and take stock of the frightening implications found therein.

...i was trying to be sarcastic...

...i absolutely agree with you...

Damn... with these religiosity types.. it's hard to tell if it's sarcasm since it sounds just like em!!

Everybody should see this.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...97781&hl=en



Everything you've always wanted to know about Islam but were afraid to ask. The feature documentary that discovers the basis of Muslim violence in the Koran and the life of Muhammad.

Merged

hmmm. i watched the doc carefully and very patiently indeed. as a muslim ill give my honest review on this and i like every one to take this in account after watching the doc. as a muslim shite we would dismiss the doc as fault because all the narations and the facts collected by these authors - lets say we dont follow such hadiths. mainly and entirely because the hadiths are written by people who we believe are not worth a good source. a hadith is a oral tradition of the prophets actions and customs - in other words his sayings and doings. we shias have a more complex way of looking at a so called hadith cause in reality n e 1 can take a piece of paper and write things on it and say this is written by another person. we have a more scientific approch on looking at hadith than the rest of the sect. we fully examine the hadith and see who was it who wrote these hadiths. saying this ill move to my next point.

a sunni, or a wahabi extremist watching this doc would really agree with this stuff cause some of its ulema's would have said so. he has to force himself in accepting no matter how wrong it may seems. the doc is biased nd looking only from the mainly sunni, sufi nd the wahabi sect but it left out what we shias thought on this. see we have long being arguing with sunni ulemas about these things. their belief in the caliphate are wrong whom we have a different views - we say they were corrupt and foul people who raped, stole and killed alot of people for power and money. and the hadiths which are coming out of these sunni's sources like sahih al bukhari believed in these caliphate as good leaders.

hmmm. i watched the doc carefully and very patiently indeed. as a muslim ill give my honest review on this and i like every one to take this in account after watching the doc. as a muslim shite we would dismiss the doc as fault because all the narations and the facts collected by these authors - lets say we dont follow such hadiths. mainly and entirely because the hadiths are written by people who we believe are not worth a good source. a hadith is a oral tradition of the prophets actions and customs - in other words his sayings and doings. we shias have a more complex way of looking at a so called hadith cause in reality n e 1 can take a piece of paper and write things on it and say this is written by another person. we have a more scientific approch on looking at hadith than the rest of the sect. we fully examine the hadith and see who was it who wrote these hadiths. saying this ill move to my next point.

a sunni, or a wahabi extremist watching this doc would really agree with this stuff cause some of its ulema's would have said so. he has to force himself in accepting no matter how wrong it may seems. the doc is biased nd looking only from the mainly sunni, sufi nd the wahabi sect but it left out what we shias thought on this. see we have long being arguing with sunni ulemas about these things. their belief in the caliphate are wrong whom we have a different views - we say they were corrupt and foul people who raped, stole and killed alot of people for power and money. and the hadiths which are coming out of these sunni's sources like sahih al bukhari believed in these caliphate as good leaders.

in the doc its said that the prophet killed the jews and the non believer and beheaded them for no apparent reason. as the month of ramadan arrives nearer i remember one story of the prophet in this very holy month. it was the month of ramadan and when the time came to break the fast the prophet got ready for iftar. soon when the prophet was about to eat, someone knocked on his door. it was a poor person asking for food as he was hungry. the man did not know whose house he entered - this was the house of the prophet where no one leaves empty handed. so the prophet in the name of god gave his food to this poor. but this was the only meal the prophet had and so he stayed hungry for the rest of the day. morning arrived and still haven't eaten anything, it was the second day of the fasting month and so the prophet fast for the day.right before when the fast opens, the prophet went out to the market to buy some food for him to break his fast. when the iftar time arrived someone knocked on his door again - this time it was a blind women who was hungry. the prophet gave all his food which he bought to break his fast to this woman and so stayed hungry for another day. third day - and this day the prophet fast again. when the iftar time arrived some one knocked on the door again. this time it was a jewish traveller who was lost and had no money to buy some food - little he knew who's this house was. he asked for food and so the prophet in the name of god sacrificed his hunger and gave all the food to this man.

someone who sacrificed his hunger especially in the month of Ramadan like this, is this a sort of person who orders to kill. the attributes of the prophet are many and among the most beautiful. yet people are making him look like a killer. look at these people again and see who these people are. the quran was revealed 1400 years ago and mainly spoke directly to the people back than. this is 21st century. do we need to relate what it said to todays world. people often forget what is meant by each meaning in the book and take things literally. the people who spoke very ill against the prophet were the same people who followed the likes of abu bakr and marwan (bad bad people). these are the sources and the facts the doc have collected. not to mention how biased it is.

Islam: What the West Needs to Know' had been dismissed in the main stream media as biased anti-Muslim propaganda (Chicago Daily Herald, Chicago Sun-Times, Chicago Tribune). Box office results confirm their 'advomentary' agenda; U.S. domestic total gross: $22,938, initial limited [Chicago] release in 3 theaters - opening July 7, 2006 and closed July 13, 2006.
http://www.brandongray.com/movies/?id=isla...needstoknow.htm

'Islam Documentary Portrays Flawed Views'
http://media.www.dailycampus.com/media/sto...s-2409426.shtml

There was no coincidence launching 'Islam: What the West Needs to Know' in Chicago, heart of the neo con nesting grounds, it was one last desperate kick at the can as they were falling into disgrace. The 'infomercial's' self evident Islamaphobe talking heads Serge Trifkovic, Robert Spencer, Walid Shoebat, Bat Yeâ'or and their incestuous political extremist interconnectedness are certainly worth a google i.e. especially Serge Trifkovic...
http://www.mediamonitors.net/habibsiddiqui3.html

"Robert Spencer [neo con] is the author of the well-known Web site Jihad Watch. He uses the Internet to spread misinformation and hatred of Islam, while claiming he is merely putting forward the truth. But as in much extremist advocacy, he presents a skewed, one-sided, and inflammatory story that only helps sow the seeds of civilizational conflict. For example, he takes apparently violent verses of the Quran out of context and then does not provide any peaceful verses as a balance...Spencer does not understand the true Muslim faith or differentiate between moderate Muslims and violent Islamists, and so lumps them all in one boat." 'Reconciliation: Islam, Democracy, and the West' Benazir Bhutto [1953-2007 RIP]

[culled from a prior posting]

thanx man, i was currently looking for that sort of stuff - cheers

Human rights = good

Denying people basic human rights for religious reasons = bad

I don't care if it is space aliens or Texans or a talking walrus. Anyone who denies human rights is the enemy to our freedom and comfort. Go ahead and debate the virtues of fundamentalism all you want... but if it hurts ANYONE then there is no defense.

Is that one-sided? Fuck yeah it is.... and the world at large agrees with me... so I got the numbers. "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics

History shows us that fundamentalism and theocracy have ALWAYS evolved into moderate religion and human rights... but there are a small handful of countries that are catching up. They will catch up, and one day we will look back on the denial of human rights with shame.

I also suspect, and there are some stats that back this up, that countries that adopt a moderate stance on religion and encourage human rights develop a large amount of "organic" atheism... but that is another debate. Having humans rights around can ONLY lead to people supporting human rights, and this also leads to the denial of religious doctrines that infringe upon human rights. It is simple cause and effect and that is why we are winning. Once you go human right you can never go back.

I don’t know what kind of people u talk or listen too. You talking about human rights with me, stating (I think?) that ur saying my religion does not have any human rights. Again – how exactly do u know this.
First of all, don’t u think, that any person has the right to believe in whatever they want – is it hurting u soooo much. Don’t u think it’s a human right to have ur own belief just like urs? Then why do u criticize these peoples belief, why do u stand against and say no, hence you being an atheist not even not sure of urself if god exist or not. I don’t understand this. Nobody is talking in a foul language in regards to your belief and u believe that religion is an insult to mankind. U either clearly disagree with the religious teachings or don’t have a shit clue abow-et – or both.
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion”. ill wiki this guy who said this. N e wayz, this Blok failed on understanding the teaching of religion. think of every evil things like bribery, raping, killing and murdering, stealing, bullying, etc. now u should know very very well that no religion has a massage potraying such acts, no telling people to do it but in fact telling people to stand against such crime and evil. Basically if u think that a religion which tells its believer that to do evil things – u should stop and think again. Saying that it takes religion to do evil is the biggest mistake a person can make, religion teaches a person to stay away from doing evil for its own benefits and how can someone say religion is the cause for it. If the person is going on the wrong direction, clearly he/she is not religious and have little knowledge on its religious teaching.

Why do atheists have such a problem with religion? Its pretty simple Hasnain.

Over the past 10 years, religion of every sort.. mainly christianity and islam have reared their ugly heads and are now demanding special political and educational privileges that they are not owed. From fundamentalist christians in the bible belt of the US demanding that intelligent design be taught in science classes of the schools to islam (and christianity) demanding that blasphemy be a criminal offense punishable by jail time. Religion is also trying to push its way into world politics, where it has no place. Islamists are pushing sharia law on the UK, demanding that everybody be judged by its standards. Atheists in general have no problem with people believing in whatever fairy tale they want, thing is, we don't want these beliefs pushed on us via our educational and political systems.

That statement that it takes religion for good people to do bad things does indeed hold true. Look at the islamist state of Saudi Arabia. People are forced into belief by pain of death. If anybody publicly admits to non-belief, they are then decapitated. The Saudi government is using religion as a tool of control, hence good people trapped within this power structure are obliged to follow the rules. My flatmate from Saudi is glad he moved away from there, especially after seeing a friend being executed for simply denying the existence of god. Religion forces rules and ideologies on people that take away from the persons civil rights as a human being. From the islamist practice of covering women so that they cannot be seen to the mutilation of female and male genitalia in Jewish and christian beliefs.

Religion can have a capacity for good, but its horrid moral "superiority" makes people blind to the bad that goes with it. You have been brainwashed since birth to believe what you do. You friends, family and government all believe the same as you. You havent been given a fair chance to believe otherwise. If you moved to a secular country such as NZ, you would see how atheists, humanists and moderate christians can live in a peaceful manner without religion forcing its ugly values onto everybody.

People such as myself do understand religion Hasnain, so please do not presume that atheists have no understanding of religion. We are atheists for a reason, the vast majority of the atheists on this forum once believed in one supernatural deity or another at some point. One day we all had events that really opened our eyes to how the world really works. You have to give yourself the chance to do the same.

on the first part.......your right. except in the case of non-believers. all the holy books are chock full stories about people being killed, beaten, and raped because they don't believe.
they say don't do this stuff, but tell of villages laid to waste, the woman taken as a prize, and infants put to the sword. because they don't believe.

on the second part.......you just described the pope. and if he is not religious and has little knowledge on its religious teachings, than the whole thing needs to come down. and your argument becomes invalid by your own words.

sigh!!!!.
u see u dont understand this religion. muslims outside saudi arabia - all over the world have been criticising its government. no u dont know nothing about my religion - nothing!. in saudia arabia shia's like myself are not allowed to make muaharram. we dont have our own mosque forgot sake, we are not even allowed to express ourself - no u dont know nothing about my religion. saudia arabia is messed up big time and we shia disagree with most of thier sharia laws as they are very extreme. i can tell u some of the laws like banging a hammer on the nuts when caught stealing. these are among the extreme laws this country and they go wrong against our shi'te beliefs. i will not be suprised at ur friend but infact even here some of my friend think the same but infact have accepted the shia faith and found it to be the right one, they found it to make more sense and they found it to be more fitting in the brain.

blackhawk i dont know where to begin to talk about my faith. i could write a whole book. nothing in this world would seem right if this religion didnt existed. its a gift and im the lucky one. born a muslim and than a shia.

u havent study anything about the religion - nothing. only thing u know is the little bits of thing on what the other sects know. u hold the same knowledge of this religion as those suicide bomber - god will surely send them to hell. the only difference is that they follow it and u dont.

learn the truth, than say.


i like to argue but im srry i dont understand wa u said completely - especially on the pope thing. srry just speaking very frankly and no disrespect.

no disrespect taken. i believe we speak different languages. it happens.

on the first part, you are right when you say holy books tell you not to do bad things. but they are full of stories about doing bad things to people because they don't believe. and god says its ok.

on the second part, you say religion teaches people to not do bad things and if they do, they are not religious or don't know the teachings.
you may know the catholic church has a problem with priests raping children. they have a book of rules that states that if a priest is accused, everyone is to be kept quite and the evidence is to be hidden away. and if anyone talks, they are to be punished. this is an order from the Vatican. the man who made this rule and gave the order later became the pope. so he must not be religious and not know the teachings?

i hope that is a little clearer.

You do realise you're basically saying that one version of islam bad but YOUR version of islam good
...both are derived from the same source, meaning the source is not so good to start with.
The laws and hadiths you say shiite don't agree with that are so extreme didn't come from nowhere.

Also Shiite is greatly outnumbered by sunni in the world so if anything sunni represent islam more than shiite.

I assume you follow the same Quran whether you are shiite or sunni ...yes?
Below is a link to a surah str8 out of the Quran,
this surah is one of the sources for which Saudi arabia (and other muslims and islamic states) commits its atrocities, it's not from a sharia law or hadith it's in the QURAN - now obey it or deny the quran

Quran, surah 5:33

" The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter "

The above surah is a good example of religion having good people do evil things

As other people have said Hasnian, both suuni, and shiite alike both follow the quran. For you to say that suuni are the ones that are responsible for how the west perceive islam is totally bogus. You BOTH follow the same religion, you BOTH believe in a magical sky daddy that doesn't actually exist. Just you being a muslim is a catalyst for extremist forms of islam to exist.

I know religion Hasnain. Just as others here on the forums do, so again, do not act as though we are ignorant. We have seen what religion does to people. We see how religion is gaining a foothold in today's secular societies.

Its fine if you want to believe what you believe but you are enabling the very extremism that you obviously so vehemently hate by allowing your religious dogma to dictate how you live your life.

Religion is a dinosaur that realises, no matter what faith, that it is slowly dying. Priests, imams etc etc all know this. They purposely keep teaching people lies to keep the faith alive. Science has stripped away the dogmatic tales that tried to explain the world. Both christianity and islam are up in arms regarding evolution and the beginnings of the universe because these are the two last vestiges of faith that the religious can cling to.

And don't tell me that the quran is full of accurate science, because it isn't. I have already busted that myth in another thread.

I don't doubt that you are a good person Hasnain, that you use the quran as a tool to lead a good life. Hey, that's great. Thing is, there are people out there like me that realise that people don't need religion to lead a good moral life, to lead a life that has meaning.

No it's not a mistake, you said it yourself remember ....




(Sharia law is a religious law)

Sharia law is based on the islamic RELIGION, so " ... for good people to do bad things, it takes religion"

still holds true ...by your own admittance

The Shias only disagree with the Saudis because they're mainly Sunnis who bitch slap em at any given opportunity,fact is and Hasnain would never admit it but the Iranians are just as Evil when it comes to dishing out there version of Sharia law.

So we have both sides of the supernatural devide being equally as evil to there own people all in the name of Islam.

once the prophet said "If any one of you comes across an evil, he should try to stop it with his hand (using force), if he is not in a position to stop it with his hand then he should try to stop it by means of his tongue (meaning he should speak against it). If he is not even able to use his tongue then he should at least condemn it in his heart. This is the weakest degree of faith"
the priest is a wrong doer and in islam anyone who breaks the rule no matter who that person is must be punished. have any one stepped up among you to stand against it, if any thing like this happens even by the ruler or a Muslim priest he is punished for his crime. atleast we argue and debate with each other on our religious debate and this thing is being going on for centuries. morality exist in every person whether religious or not and these are the words of god. all you have to do is follow them and religion makes sure of it. if a person doesn't he indeed is going on the wrong path.


i got every right to call u ignorant cause u are. tell me what is meant by that. both top sunni and shite scholar examine the quran and than they have to say what is said (commentary). this process is called tasfir which often requires alot of knowledge both scientific and spiritual. a single page of the quran for tasfir can take tens of pages and u cracked it with a click. good 1.

n e wayz. this is a famous verse from the holy quran, im suprised u even shock - why. back in the days, people (the government) had less control over the people. so if any one comited a crime, it would been difficult as compare to nowadays. the meaning of the verse is simply who does crime among a nation, region, country or even a city/village must be taken action with. in the older days the hand used to be cut off of the biggest criminals. god has given us options for the criminal (example a terrorist - who brings mischief on the land) to be punished and no one crucify, neither cut of hands but infact u are all aware of the last option (exile) in your very country u stand on. a prison is a form of exile and most criminals or "mischiefs" of the public are send into prisons - where else do u want them to go.

ignorant!


nope. people simply follow the wrong path of other. and being religious and all, people like u dont blame the person but its religion cause that what u see from outside. stand inside the box and see how the world is like.

people are debating on this for years. the fact is, these sort of sharia rules, i get to hear about only few in my lifetime. it doesnt change my life, neither effects my friends. we are all living free - frankly nobody cares, cause nobody gonna commit such crimes with such punishment.


the country you probably are living in - the rules it has, the laws it rules are all thought from the sharia laws. this is in the history. i say to u neva going to admit but go wiki and ull find the british, spanish, and other parts of the europe, all had adapted rules of sharia from certain muslim character back few centuries ago, where now u guys have adapted.

trial, jury system, court, freedom of expression, racial descrimination etc many many others. which religion do u think teaches this and which started it first. look again in the history book and it will shock u. the law system most of the nation had something to do with islam.

why dont u tell me the good side of sharia laws. i can ask u question that u want able to ask. the fact is, no politic is perfect. and the sharia law are being changing cause people (especially iranians) realised that the world is getting modern. they still have the older laws cause of the country itself - its still not that modern compare to america, europe, and australias. the sharia laws written for people living in the west are sort of different and provide extra material.

btw - when it comes to debate between shia and sunni - v always have the rank. and saying "bitch slap" is frankly offensive. i dont want to get on a wrong foot. but it is hard talking to an athiest about us disaproving with the sunni's and dont wont to give a negative message. v still respect and atleast v debate and dont use force or wat eva.

Nope, I'm talking about when religion condones,encourages, entices or orders evil acts, not as observed from the "outside" but as observed by the RELIGION hence quran 5:33 and many many many more examples.

This isn't a case of people following "the wrong path of other" (aka not the same religion as you), this is a case of RELIGIOUS people following their religious BELIEFS and doing bad things because there RELIGIOUS BELIEFS calls for it
It's not whether or not YOU think they are following "the wrong path of other" and so they are not religious (according to you) LOL
it just doesn't work like that, they are religious TOO and worse still the source for them TOO is the Quran, deny it all you like they are religious and do bad things, sometimes because of their RELIGION

And these aren't laws only used in the "old days" as i'm sure you'd happily have people believe, they're still in use today and for trivial matters!
And these aren't JUST laws that have been agreed upon by scholars and science and spiritualism via tasfir as shown sources include QURAN ...so it is written!
And these aren't laws that when they are terrible they are conveniently from a rival islamic source they are in the Quran your SHARED source

nb. Two of the main sources for sharia law is the quran and the sunnah (mohhamed ways or some such thing) the rest is scholars and schools of thought but you BOTH share the quran and sunnah



Did i start calling you names? i brought up a part of the quran that is used TODAY to punish people and you start throwing insults and lies about it's use.
This is not a law that was used long ago only and for the worst only
LOOK IT UP! I HAVE!
i suggest if you are not aware then YOU may be the ignorant one

oh and EXILE in mty country under normal law a prisoner can return after serving his sentence he's not EXILED for ever!
Stop excusing something you seem to know nothing about.

oh and if you want to play the start throwing insults game just remember i have no respect for your quran or mohammed ... so it's YOUR fault if you incite me to rip the shit out of them both



yes and sharia laws are religious based laws ...so it's important

you may only hear about a few in your lifetime, but i doubt it's something you look for or even want to know about, you'd rather pretend it wasn't true, that is ignorance.

It doesn't change YOUR life, YOUR friends, You're all free! ...
OK good for YOU, but how about you stop ignoring all the people and your fellow muslims whos lives ARE affected or are NOT free because of a religious law?
Speak up for them instead of trying to suppress a truth that may be personally or spiritually hard to swallow.

Oh and your "nobody cares" statement when it comes to religion making it ok for people to execute and torture people as a punishment sums you up really ...ignorant?



...is this seriously your excuse for the Quran OK'ing it to crucify,kill, torture, amputate someone? ..because that'll make sure nobody commits that crime? LOL

in any case this is still going on today, people do get these harsh punishments and there are many proofs of it happening around the islamic world
Proof is available to anyone who'd bother to look, obviously you haven't ...ignorant?

At least you understand that religion was brought about to control people. Thanks for this admission.

By the way, what is the penalty for apostasy in the Islamic faith? When you can answer that then you will know why many muslims are still muslims today.

I find it funny that you assume someone is ignorant when you don't have any clue as to what length they have studied the subject. Script could hold a P.H.D. in Theological Studies which would probably trump the experts you have translating it for you. But let me guess, since he isn't a muslim, his opinion on your religious book doesn't count.

Try this out. Research it for yourself instead of just listening to what your local muslim scholar has to say. His opinion could be considered biased when it comes to this subject. It's insulting to me when others tell me what something says on this subject as if they hold the knowledge and I'm just a sheep meant to follow. I will ask if I don't understand something and if we disagree then we can have a discussion.

wont make a damn bit of difference sir.

Muslim theological debate defined:

you haven't read the book. you would not understand.

yes, i have.

you read a translation, you would not understand.

i speak fluent Arabic.

your not from here, you would not understand.

i was raised there.

you haven't studied under the clerics, you would not understand.

i studied under (insert name here)

he is in the minority, from a different sect, you would not understand.


no matter what you do, they will always hold the moral high ground an be enlightend while you never will.

A perfectly expounded point!

nicely done indeed...hey btw hasnain, how are ya?..remember me?..just wanted to reiterate what i said some time ago: Muhammad was a plagi...ah, you know that already, you're just tripping...

Evolution for creationists!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B9IVl8IsEg...t=1251536787.27

Ha ha Stop stop please,Islamic states & racial discrimination what like the non Muslim taxes, were they not discriminatory ?

Fact is you Muslims try to claim many things that are not actualy yours to claim & whilst i find it funny i also pitty your need to lay claim to things that were actually in place long before your science fiction took hold.

You claim This is in History but it is not accepted History by anyone but people from your cult,it's just a theory by a couple of people trying to make a name for themselves as it only came about when folks on our Island from your Cult started crying about wanting Sharia Law.

I only wish you'd claim that Muslims built the Pyramids because that one always gives me a great belly rumble.

i dont get the kind of u people. you say the preist rapes a girl and no one is allowed to say anything. u guys sit ur ass down and do nothing while an innocent is tormented. then u bring a verse from the book saying look this is what ur religion condones u. condones what? to protect ourself from the one who is killing others, causing mischief, terrorising. OR we would sit like u guys knowing that someone rapes an innocent girl and do nothing. i dont get where u coming from when u say "religion tells its people to comit those acts". so when god orders us to do something about it - u are against it and labelling it evil. badman aint gonna be proud of u son!

u know one of those suicide bombers, imagine the amount of knowledge they have on the religion of islam. i can imagine u on their place but the only different would be is that they follow it and u dont. today the world is getting modern, nothing is taken literally out of context from the quran - nothing. scholars sit down to read and comment on the quran verses on why they were written. its a lengthy process and i said it before u need both spirutual knowledge and scientific to do this. people are ignorant when they commit the wrong things along with thousands of reasons.

u guys make it a biiiiiiiiiiig deal about this one. u ask any muslim if they eva heard of it but they will go like wat eva. and yes scriptfu u will find alot of website which gives verses like these from the quran and they will tell people look this is the quran, while taking it literally by what is meant. read the tasfir of scholars on the verses and u will understand. ive been going to a mosque for a lota years. neva in my life i heard some one say this.

so just chilax and read again what its said and ask the scholars for what was meant by this or u can do ur own searching (need to have spiritual knowledge though)


it was forbidden to be racist. prophet Mohamed said that every man and women is equal, whether black or white, rich or poor. black people living the muslims countries from the past centuries never had the racial discrimination neither from the public nor the government. we brought in the fair trial system in islam where lots of people gatther around and have their say. the only form of tax that u may be referencing to is the ZAKAT. it is one of our pillars of islam. it is bount on every muslim to give charity. "Eat from their fruits, and give the due alms on the day of harvest"

dont act to know more than me one it comes to my religion. eat on this what is not taught at school
we dont care to claim nothing. god sees everything and hes the judge. we simply dont care but the fact is that people often decline the fact that islam had nothing to do with the history or the way people live today.


yea some atheist was talking to me on the moral ground and how atheist have more morals than religious people. good one man, ur being disgrace and hurtful to all the muslim when u talk about someone we believe that much in.

lets see if ur brave enough to say that infront of a muslims face.

I have one word for you Hasnain. Delusion.

You obviously have a very skewed view on how the world works as well as human history. As for people insulting your religion. Deal with it. There isn't a problem with people criticising a person ideals and beliefs, if someone calls into question mohammads writings or even the man himself, that's fine. Its called freedom of speech Hasnain.

Respect the person and not the ideologies mate.

The fact Muslims are so quick to threaten violence really says it all, Even if someone said it to your face or tore it off would not magically make your religon or any other have more evidence than currently ie:none. What else could you expect when the founder of the religion who is meant to be a good example was a bloodthirsty warlord, your going to end up with soldiers happy to die for you which is the whole point.

Here's and idea think for yourself instead of subscribing to a religion to do it for you.

blackhawk i got two words for u 2 - misconception n misunderstood
the irony here is that we are talking in a thread where the posted video is false and a propaganda against the religion of islam. smarrie proved it!

i would hope n pray that atleast one of u find the light. alot have to be said here n i mean alotta stuff.

nd kinglover what u said is not true. what u see on the tv is what u get and make ur opinion. today u see muslim protesting against the cartoon of prophet miahammad (p.b.u.h) nd tomorrow u see suicide DICKHEAD bomb attack in spain. u get the picture in ur head that muslims are like that but if u go nd visit these countries u will see how we really are. u cant read couple of propoganda stuff over the internet nd a little bit of video of dickheads bombing stuff up and than come up to me nd say islam is violence. i live in the united arab emirates (very modern compare to other islamic countries). nobody here talks about these things infact people are surprised to see muslim as they have imagined.

and if thought i was threatening in any way - ur wrong on this one. i love my prophet. its like me (god forbids) talking about your mother in such a way that may anger you. did i swear, did i threaten to hurt him - no. i like to warn the person just dont go there.

this is the way freedom of speech has taken where any person can have their say on just about anything while he claims that its ok and that is his opinion. the kkk would have said the same thing.

freedom of speech is not for spreading wickedness but spreading a good massage.

i no no one will here admit on this but the best way to find the truth is live ur life fullest as possible doing good. after u die u will know the truth.

the problem is hasnain, you don't allow criticism of any sort (especially founded one) toward the basic tenets of your faith including criticism toward the one who, purportedly, revealed it to his subordinates...this automatically and in the offset denies any sort of light by means of supportive evidence, data and common sense, to illuminate the subject...that usually leaves you and the like trapped in the whirlwinds of circular reasoning...by the way, what good is the freedom of speech if it is limited to spreading 'good' message...sometimes truth hurts, but it needs to be said...

Read this very carefully everyone.


Read this VERY carefully.


This person actually believes that freedom of speech does NOT involve freedom. The very definition of freedom is warped in his mind.

Seriously people, do you honestly think that Hasnain is going to even remotely consider what you have to say? Even the most profound information is lost on him by default. Yes, it is interesting to hear the rebuts, but as I said before: lost cause. He just KEEPS POSTING the same circular logic. Over and over. One post after the next of absolute circular reasoning.

There is a reason why countries evolve. Theocracies used to exist EVERYWHERE in the world... and they were ALL replaced with better systems... except for a few small places on the earth. Intolerant religious practices tend to be replaced with tolerant ones... which tends to be replaced by non-belief in religion. Things evolve, and they tend to evolve in a similar direction. Thank god for that.

i neva said freedom speach doesnt involve freedom. if ur among the people who stand there do nothing while other people discriminate other people, spreading wrong massage of peace, killing people, spreading racist massage etc claiming that its their right for freedom of speech. so just sit there.

my mind does not want to go there and i will never allow myself to take the power of freedom of speech to a level which is low, pathetic and self pity.

listen to me very carefully. I AM STRONGLY AGAINST THE MISUSE OF THE POWER OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH. every one should have the right to do it but use it wisely and better for good. its that simple.

Hasnain, freedom of speech can and does get misused. And believe it or not, it is misused more by the religious right than by any organisation on the face of the planet. Criticism of religion, especially islam is not a misuse of freedom of speech. Without it, religion would be even more rampant than it is today. People such as myself would not be able to speak out against the attrocities that any and all religions commit. Without criticism, any cult could pop up and be allowed to spread it's nonsense all over the globe without fear of reprisal.

The people here that question your religion as well as question your prophets are doing so, not out of malice but out of trying to find a core of truth. Not the "truth" that you seem to feel can only come out of the quran. If you are offended by anything anybody says, well... tough. You CHOOSE to be offended. If you do not wish to be offended, then I suggest you step out of the debate because it isn't going to stop.

Islamic states are pushing a law in the UN to outlaw blasphemy, to make it illegal for people such as myself to question or criticise religion. This is a major miscarriage of justice if ever I saw one. Without this criticism, Islam, christianity and any whackjob with a cult will then be able to dictate how we live our lives, even in secular societies.

We have every right to question and judge your beliefs Hasnain. I will not judge you as a person, but I will do so to your religion. Again, if you can't handle the jandle then I politely suggest you step out of this debate until you develop tougher skin.

the reason for this debate is a misunderstanding. you are defending Islam by the what it says in the book and the "true" meaning of the words, not how it is in the real world.
every profession, group, or whatever has a book that tells how things are to be done. and everyone knows that there is the right way (from the book) and there is reality.
the book may say to do something a certain way but in the real world, it doesn't work like that. rule books are full of ideals, the world if full of reality.

also, if the words mean one thing, why does everybody look at the same words and think something different. one see's peace and love and don't kill, and another see's kill if they don't agree with you. in my opinion, if its that unclear, that two people can see such different meanings, it wasn't written well and should be thrown out and replaced if need be.

I found this interesting info in a report about the United Arab Emirates,

maybe this is why hasnain thinks it's to be expected to get a violent response for the blasphemy/"MISUSE OF THE POWER OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH" ...



in U.A.E if you blaspheme and offend a muslim, he could well be a recently converted convict!

Seriously though does the above quote give anyone else a knot in their side?

hasnain would like blasphemy laws or he's ok with people being punished for blasphemy or "MISUSE OF THE POWER OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH" i think he believes it's to be expected.
and lives in a country where prisoners are rewarded for converting to islam!

So rewarded if they openly agree with you religiously
and punished if they openly do not agree with you religiously

No wonder hasnain finds it so hard to even question his 'own' beliefs, he seems like a character out of 1984, Parson i think his name was

... actually, hasnain please read George Orwells 1984 and see if there is anything you can relate to and come back n tell us honestly what you think, no joke or offence intended, just would like your opinion.

Spread that good massage over here, my shoulders are a little tense.

Hasnain watched a person miraculously healed in a temple. He saw it with his own eyes. He believes stories of people who had their cancer cured by Muslim clerics. He regards these stories as fact. FACT! Even Iza leaves this garbage alone.

Seriously people. This has thread has become a spectacle of rational arguments against irrational beliefs... due to Hasnain being the circular logic energizer bunny that he is. Hasnain already has the answers, and will distort facts to suit his pre-determination. This is yet another bloodbath on these boards. Hasnain is now only convincing fence sitters to more closely consider non-belief. Thanks man.


hehe, off side.

Islam is about freedom? Let me ask you again. And please take the time to answer this question as it will be the only one I pose on this reply.....

What is the penalty for Apostasy under Sharia law?

who decides what is wicked? who decides what is a good message? to put religious limitations on it means its not free speech. its religious censorship.


take a look at this topic. http://ipb.quicksilverscreen.com/index.php...28561&st=50

post #54. mark8 was quoted as saying,"The qur'an is plagiarized from pre-Islamic texts"

you replied,"dont you dare say that again "

and you say you believe in freedom of speech? i guess its ok as long as its censored by religious belief.

Agreed on all points - no "buts" included.
I am a former catholic and my wife a former Sunni mulim - we are both atheists through knowing the facts from the fiction.
Our children, grand children and great-grand children follow whatever faith they feel is right, and without our influence.
Islam, but Christianity in particular, are being hijacked by the fundamentalists and by thier preachings and actions have distorted the basic tenets of thier beliefs out of all recognition. The moderates, by thier own doctrine, singlarly fail to raise thier voices of protest, thus strengthening the radicals.
Now religion has become the lunatics running the asylum, with bible-belt America being #1.
I say to them "Engage brain before operating mouth". For sure, empty vessels make most noise. I'm sure these people have a brain, but lately I'm equally convinced that they bought thier pre-programmed brains for a few cents at a FOX News gift store.
Religion is but a useful tool for the unscrupulous. It is a machine fueled by fear, ignorance and poverty, regardless of the label slapped on it. Be it "Christianity" "Islam" "Judaism" "Fill this space"