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maximius
History Channel:debunking 9/11 myths

Presents the speculations put forward by conspiracy theorists regarding 9/11 and then experts respond to them.
A must see if you regard f.ex Loose Change as a credible documentary.....
If this was posted before,I could not find it using search...so forgive me if that is the case.
QUOTE
Examines the various conspiracy theories espoused on the Internet, in articles and in public forums that attempt to explain the 9/11 attacks. It includes theories that the World Trade Center was brought down by a controlled demolition; that a missile, not a commercial airliner, hit the Pentagon; and that members of the U.S. government orchestrated the attacks in hopes of creating a war in the Middle East. Each conspiracy argument is countered by a variety of experts in the fields of engineering, intelligence and the military. The program also delves into the anatomy of such conspiracies and how they grow on the Internet.


Please do watch this documentary and watch loose change and other documentaries as well,then make up your mind on what to believe..
SL3YR
LOL

THANKS ANY WAY MATE

This doesnt explain anything and ignores all science

show me the plane into pentagon videos it is well known that there are more cameras around the PENTAGON than there are branches on a tree


interesting watch though but not an explanation by any standards
ultraforge
I hate to sound ignorant..... but I am still kinda shocked that...

- two planes managed to demolish three steel framed buildings.

- only three building have ever collapsed due to stress and fire.... which are the 911 buildings.


Ummmmmmm. WTF anyone? How everyone around the world is not amazed at this marvel of physics is absolutely beyond me. Every single structural engineer around the world forgot to shit their pants when the magical powers of those two super-nuclear planes managed to explode THREE buildings.

Until I can wrap my head around that crazy shit I am going to have a hard time absorbing anything to the contrary. On 911, reality was clearly NOT working properly.
h0whigh
this is just bad debunking? talk about bullsh... this is just sad, please watch this and see how much evidence they will show you that 911 WAS an inside job. they show a clip of a PROFESSIONAL giving his opinion and then show THEIR Professional talking about the same subject just their professional doesn't give any true statements or just plain miss-leading .


Loose change FTW
smarrie
What's more telling, the content or who controls it. History Channel is owned by General Electric, their arms industry division GEAE was a substantial 'war on terror' profiteer (weapons manufacturer and top 10 in defense contracts). Following 9/11 GE also invested heavily in the homeland security/protection business [dumped after the Obama's election, similar to their 'bottom-line' bail out of nuclear weapons production when the cold war ended]. It's all about business, this isn't information it's an infomercial.

P.S. National Geographic ['Inside 9/11: Zero Hour] is part of Murdoch's media conglomerate News Corp, labelled the neocon's 'war on terror' propaganda machine.
mark8
QUOTE(SL3YR @ Nov 1 2009, 09:52 AM) *
LOL

THANKS ANY WAY MATE

This doesnt explain anything and ignores all science

show me the plane into pentagon videos


interesting watch though but not an explanation by any standards


That would be the part where they explain that the video is running at 1 frame per second and that a plane travelling at about 500mph doesn't get caught on tape clearly and especially low quality video. You can do the math on that if you like but the analogy below is succinct enough.

Analogy: Stare straight forward, (your eyes being the camera) now wave your hand from right to left rapidly in front of your face. Even with your palm facing you, it is not recognisable as a hand. Even though you kow it is your hand, all you can see is a blur.


QUOTE
Ultra:

I hate to sound ignorant..... but I am still kinda shocked that...

- two planes managed to demolish three steel framed buildings.

- only three building have ever collapsed due to stress and fire.... which are the 911 buildings
.

Ummmmmmm. WTF anyone? How everyone around the world is not amazed at this marvel of physics is absolutely beyond me. Every single structural engineer around the world forgot to shit their pants when the magical powers of those two super-nuclear planes managed to explode THREE buildings.

Until I can wrap my head around that crazy shit I am going to have a hard time absorbing anything to the contrary. On 911, reality was clearly NOT working properly.


Fly two planes at about 500mph into buildings, they are gonna fuck shit up.

Only The Twin Tours had the above happen to them, plane - building - fire = devastation.

Three buildings didn't explode, they fell to the ground because of structural damage.


QUOTE
What's more telling, the content or who controls it. History Channel is owned by General Electric, their arms industry division GEAE was a substantial 'war on terror' profiteer (weapons manufacturer and top 10 in defense contracts). Following 9/11 GE also invested heavily in the homeland security/protection business [dumped after the Obama's election, similar to their 'bottom-line' bail out of nuclear weapons production when the cold war ended]. It's all about business, this isn't information it's an infomercial.

P.S. National Geographic ['Inside 9/11: Zero Hour] is part of Murdoch's media conglomerate News Corp, labelled the neocon's 'war on terror' propaganda machine.


Post hoc ergo propter hoc is the bread and butter of conspiracy theorists, the same logical fallacies employed by creationists and you here. So far this is all that has been used. You don't have evidence of x therefore inside job.

Example: You can't show me footage of the pentagon plane therfore inside job.
You can't show me a crocoduck (transitional form) therefore God did it.
SL3YR
show me the plane into pentagon videos it is well known that there are more cameras around the PENTAGON than there are branches on a tree

wtc 7 struct damage lol remember what Larry said
mark8
QUOTE(SL3YR @ Nov 1 2009, 11:52 AM) *
show me the plane into pentagon videos it is well known that there are more cameras around the PENTAGON than there are branches on a tree

wtc 7 struct damage lol remember what Larry said


Even if there was no footage at all at the pentagon, it still wouldn't equate to an inside job. That is a logical fallacy being employed that I've already pointed out above.

What Larry said is also covered in the documentary, even if he didn't mean 'get the firefighters out of the building' by saying "pull it". You can't then say because he said x it then = inside job. This doesn't qualify as evidence of anything more than saying the words "pull it". He has said he meant the firefighters, but that aside you're employing a logical fallacy to then jump to "it was an inside job"

Fallacy of many questions coming up I feel.
horsehead
here's a very interesting full-length documentary about the Pentagon attack- mainly made up of eyewitness accounts including those from local police officers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o
SL3YR
what Larry said isnt really evidence just a strange choice of words too use at such a time, which is why its more a point of discussion. ie not really hard evidence just a real fucking strange choice of words its also a very minor point of the argument which

Debunkers seem to highlight and sit ignoring the science of the whole wtc 7 building and swallowing the whole THE DANG BUILDING JUST WENT AND FELL DOWN INTO DUST CUZ OF THOSE THERE COUPLE O DESKS N CHAIRS IN A FEW OFFICES ON A FEW FLOORS CAUGHT ON FIRE AND BY THE WAY DONT WORRY WE RANG THE GUINNESS RECORD GUYS AND TOLD THEM ABOUT THE NEW ' FIRE FALLING BUILDING RECORD ' SO YALL CAN

GO BACK SLEEP NOW SHEEPLE OOPS I MEAN PEOPLE




its the rest of the evidence thats impossible to deny

science dictates that this debunking attempt is debunked so it should be pulled
mark8
QUOTE(SL3YR @ Nov 1 2009, 01:47 PM) *
what Larry said isnt really evidence just a strange choice of words too use at such a time, which is why its more a point of discussion. ie not really hard evidence just a real fucking strange choice of words its also a very minor point of the argument which

Debunkers seem to highlight and sit ignoring the science of the whole wtc 7 building and swallowing the whole THE DANG BUILDING JUST WENT AND FELL DOWN INTO DUST CUZ OF THOSE THERE COUPLE O DESKS N CHAIRS IN A FEW OFFICES ON A FEW FLOORS CAUGHT ON FIRE AND BY THE WAY DONT WORRY WE RANG THE GUINNESS RECORD GUYS AND TOLD THEM ABOUT THE NEW ' FIRE FALLING BUILDING RECORD ' SO YALL CAN

GO BACK SLEEP NOW SHEEPLE OOPS I MEAN PEOPLE
its the rest of the evidence thats impossible to deny

science dictates that this debunking attempt is debunked so it should be pulled


We are in agreement then that the most you can ascertain from Larrys 'bad choice' of words is just that a bad use of language. Anything else is purely hearsay at best and imagination run wild. ie 'Pull it' could equally be evidence of Larry being a Russian spy and wanting America to indulge in a costly war, kind of like what they endured. The old pay back taktic.

As for the shouty bit of your post, saying something loudly doesn't make it any more real or correct. WTC 7 was severly damaged from the twin towers, there was a huge section of it missing, the fire raged for hours unhindered and the structural make up of the building made it susceptable to collapse.
That is what the science says and is elucidated very well in the documentary.
smarrie
Misconception vs a deception! Where is the coherent credibility apeing bandwagon bullshit i.e. your apotheosis for Chistopher Hitchens. This dipsomaniacal sellout is a Murdoch minion and 'gadfly' neocon cohort who will talk any telling ad hoc croc (advertisement's hocking trash) if the price is right. It seems we all have a hobby horsie to ride...some more disingenuously deriding than others, though.
SL3YR
NO SHOUTING HERE MATE

I DONT AGREE WITH ANYTHING U HAVE SAID

FACTS ARE FACTS

3 WTC'S NO PENTAGON PLANE BITS NO GROUND/EARTH/GRASS DAMAGE, TOO MUCH BULLPOO IN 1 DAY, MORE EVIDENCE TOO WRITE 3 NOVELS JUST ON FACTUAL EVIDENCE ALONE, TOO MUCH TOO GO OVER HERE, ITS BEEN DONE OVER AND OVER

I CANT FIND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK THESE EVENTS JUST DONT SIT RIGHT, MOST OF THEM ARE NORMAL EVERYDAY PEOPLE THAT DONT SWALLOW THE NWO ILLUMINATI STUFF BUT STILL THINK 911 JUST DOESNT

SEEM CLEAR CUT AND THINK ITS FAR TOO COINCIDENTAL AND FAR FETCHED AND MY FRIENDS INCLUDE FELLOW ARMY FRIENDS, SOME NAVY GUYS AND 2 YOUNG COPPERS AND JUST NORMAL EVRYDAY NORMAL NON CONSPIRACY PEOPLE.

ITS NOT RIGHT JUST DOESN'T MATCH

SCIENCE IS SCIENCE

THATS IT FOR ME

WAKE UP MAN


QUOTE " CAPS DOESNT MEAN SHOUTING TOO ME, IT JUST MEANS U CAN SEE THE TINY LETTERS BETTER "
mark8
'SL3YR' date='Nov 1 2009, 03:39 PM' post='841283']
NO SHOUTING HERE MATE

Yes you are shouting, whether you like it or not that is what you are doing.


I DONT AGREE WITH ANYTHING U HAVE SAID

QUOTE
mark8: What Larry said is also covered in the documentary, even if he didn't mean 'get the firefighters out of the building' by saying "pull it". You can't then say because he said x it then = inside job. This doesn't qualify as evidence of anything more than saying the words "pull it". He has said he meant the firefighters, but that aside you're employing a logical fallacy to then jump to "it was an inside job"



QUOTE
SL3YR: what Larry said isnt really evidence just a strange choice of words too use at such a time, which is why its more a point of discussion. ie not really hard evidence just a real fucking strange choice of words


Sounds exactly like you are in agreement with me.


FACTS ARE FACTS

3 WTC'S NO PENTAGON PLANE BITS NO GROUND/EARTH/GRASS DAMAGE, TOO MUCH BULLPOO IN 1 DAY, MORE EVIDENCE TOO WRITE 3 NOVELS JUST ON FACTUAL EVIDENCE ALONE, TOO MUCH TOO GO OVER HERE, ITS BEEN DONE OVER AND OVER

Photos Of Flt 77 Wreckage
Inside The Pentagon
Exclusive Photos & Story

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm
http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/20010913/PentagonDamage.pdf
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp

The plane hit between the first and second floors, which is why there is not the earth/grass (AKA crocoduck) damage you wish to see.


I CANT FIND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK THESE EVENTS JUST DONT SIT RIGHT, MOST OF THEM ARE NORMAL EVERYDAY PEOPLE THAT DONT SWALLOW THE NWO ILLUMINATI STUFF BUT STILL THINK 911 JUST DOESNT

SEEM CLEAR CUT AND THINK ITS FAR TOO COINCIDENTAL AND FAR FETCHED AND MY FRIENDS INCLUDE FELLOW ARMY FRIENDS, SOME NAVY GUYS AND 2 YOUNG COPPERS AND JUST NORMAL EVRYDAY NORMAL NON CONSPIRACY PEOPLE.

ITS NOT RIGHT JUST DOESN'T MATCH

A new line of poor reasoning, instead of appealing to authority we have appealing to the layman. I think you are a candidate for Caps Lock Theory.

SCIENCE IS SCIENCE

Yes and you have demonstrated non whatsoever.

THATS IT FOR ME

WAKE UP MAN
QUOTE " CAPS DOESNT MEAN SHOUTING TOO ME, IT JUST MEANS U CAN SEE THE TINY LETTERS BETTER "

Thank you, but my vision is fine and I do not require the text to be in capitals in order to read and comprehend your posts.
MrFunyun
QUOTE(mark8 @ Nov 1 2009, 12:02 PM) *
Even if there was no footage at all at the pentagon, it still wouldn't equate to an inside job. That is a logical fallacy being employed that I've already pointed out above.


It doesn't have to equate with an inside job, it only has to equate with the fact that the 'official' investigations have lacked transparency. The consequences of concealed evidence without a 'logical' explanation should be the only focus now in light of the response and resulting reaction.
The events of that day are never going to be without question; the evidence is now destroyed and there was loss and anger, therefore there will always be doubt. Whether the hand is forced or unforced is no longer the issue..........

Vaiagra
People that (want to) believe 9/11 was an inside job remind me of Creationists.

Bear with me..

Wouldn't it be great if we found out the Bush administration or the federal reserve or the Bilderburg group was behind 9/11? That would give us a clear enemy and a clear solution to our problems. We would all feel empowered, righteous and patriotic and we'd know what to do next and what to look out for in the future.

The reality is that before 9/11, average Americans and most of the American government had VERY little knowledge and prior "experience" with radical Islam. Americans still aren't able to stomach the mindset of a Muslim terrorist, and unlike Israel, Americans are STILL trying to fight the war against Islamic aggression the way they fought the British or the Nazi's in WW2.

This is our gravest error, and it's also the reason we're still in Afghanistan and haven't put an end to terror. WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF OUR ENEMY. We can't fathom the depth of ignorance, hatred, callousness and racism of Jihad mentality.

So the easiest most comforting thing the average American can do during these tough times is to rehash old targets and weave conspiracies that make sense to US as Americans. It gives the average Joe an answer and it gives many people some form of closure.

The reality is -- and this is the parallel to Creationists -- that the truth behind 9/11 is ugly, confusing, uncomfortable, raw, unjust and very, very primal. Evolution, compared to Creationism, is a lot less a romantic explanation of our origins (unless you're into science and facts -- then it's beautiful). Conspiracy theories are romanticized, epic ideas which serve to sugar-coat the cold, hard, ugly, human truths of this world.

'Know thine enemy' is one of the most underrated axioms of the 21st century. If we knew Islam, like Israel has spent the last 50+ years trying desperately to figure out, then we wouldn't be stuck in Afghanistan. We wouldn't have WASTED all of our troops and all of our money on Iraq.

The thought of being descendants of apes isn't really romantic -- but it's the truth. The sooner we know who are enemy is, RADICAL ISLAMIC IDEOLOGY (and one might even argue that moderate Islam is just as dangerous), we're doomed to the type of world we see today -- western solutions to barbaric ideology.

This mistake is also what fuels terrorism in the first place. They feed on our rational, liberal, humanist culture. It's yet another form of Jihad -- get the infidels to implode within themselves.

It will all sink in when the inevitable dirty bomb ravages NYC or Washington.

I'll leave with this final thought..

Think about the ideology behind suicide terrorism. Look at the victims of Iraqi men and women who blow themselves up, always killing more civilians than military personnel. Think of hostage executions, of the Bhurka, of the term 'infidel'. Think of the global outrage caused by a bunch of cartoons in a Danish newspaper, the lack of free speech in the middle east, honor killings in non-Arab countries..

THAT'S your enemy.
Wingnutt
smarrie smile.gif My vocabulary arsenal grows when I read your posts cause I have to look up definitions. 5 in your last post ! Dipsomaniacal is my favorite new word out of that bunch.

mark8 smile.gif Thank you for that jet Wreckage link. I've never seen those pictures before. Very interesting.

SL3YR smile.gif I don't think this should be pulled off QSS. Whether you believe in it's conclusions or representations or you do not, it is something to watch.
Entertaining and informative, it all depends on how you look at it . A little research will let someone who watches it know whether or not it is biased or contains inaccuracies. smile.gif

horsehead smile.gif youtube is down for maintenance so I'll have to wait to watch your posted link but thank you, hope I haven't seen it yet.

maximius smile.gif thanks for the post. laugh.gif
smarrie
LOL!...the end justifies the mean-spirited bombasts of a self proclaimed anti-Islamist's consequentialism.
omnitribe
No offense but this documentary has been discredited many times over.
Vaiagra
Fine..

Islam is wonderful. Thank god for Allah and his peace-loving prophet. The world was created 10,000 years ago. Women are objects. Jet fuel can't melt steel. 911 was an inside job! 9/11 was an inside job!

(Better?)
Wingnutt
laugh.gif
smarrie
QUOTE(Vaiagra @ Nov 1 2009, 02:39 PM) *
Fine..

Islam is wonderful. Thank god for Allah and his peace-loving prophet. The world was created 10,000 years ago. Women are objects. Jet fuel can't melt steel. 911 was an inside job! 9/11 was an inside job!

(Better?)

P.S. Violence is the self-perpetuating outcome of any belligerent occupation.
pcmacro
part 5 and 6 are not working.
omnitribe
QUOTE(Vaiagra @ Nov 1 2009, 10:39 PM) *
Fine..

Islam is wonderful. Thank god for Allah and his peace-loving prophet. The world was created 10,000 years ago. Women are objects. Jet fuel can't melt steel. 911 was an inside job! 9/11 was an inside job!

(Better?)


It's funny you'd say that because the investigation done by NIST is equivalent to creation science.
Wingnutt
Youtube servers were down for maintenance earlier today. And yeah, from a search of their site it looks like pt 5 is gone and pt six is temp. unavailable.
bukcherry
I was in NY on 9/11 watching these events from my apt block rooftop , im not saying this gives me more clue as to what happened but i do believe that 2 towers were dropped as a result of a direct hit from 2 aircraft ,as for different planes and explosions in the towers just forget it , it didnt happen , the 3rd building fell due to extensive structural damage caused by millions of tons of steel and concrete falling hundreds of feet in seconds .
The verdict is still out on the Pentagon .
omnitribe
QUOTE(bukcherry @ Nov 2 2009, 12:57 AM) *
I was in NY on 9/11 watching these events from my apt block rooftop , im not saying this gives me more clue as to what happened but i do believe that 2 towers were dropped as a result of a direct hit from 2 aircraft ,as for different planes and explosions in the towers just forget it , it didnt happen , the 3rd building fell due to extensive structural damage caused by millions of tons of steel and concrete falling hundreds of feet in seconds .
The verdict is still out on the Pentagon .


The only problem with that version of the story is that it's physically impossible. All 3 buildings feel at nearly free fall speed, which implies that there was 0 resistance from the structural steel holding up these buildings, and implies that thousands of tons of structural steel was magically removed from beneath the collapsing buildings. It's impossible to explain what happened without the use of a controlled demolition, bottom line. The latest investigation doesn't even explain the mechanism of collapse, and they ignore a lot of evidence.
SL3YR
QUOTE(Wingnutt @ Nov 2 2009, 05:17 AM) *
smarrie smile.gif My vocabulary arsenal grows when I read your posts cause I have to look up definitions. 5 in your last post ! Dipsomaniacal is my favorite new word out of that bunch.

mark8 smile.gif Thank you for that jet Wreckage link. I've never seen those pictures before. Very interesting.

SL3YR smile.gif I don't think this should be pulled off QSS. Whether you believe in it's conclusions or representations or you do not, it is something to watch.
Entertaining and informative, it all depends on how you look at it . A little research will let someone who watches it know whether or not it is biased or contains inaccuracies. smile.gif

horsehead smile.gif youtube is down for maintenance so I'll have to wait to watch your posted link but thank you, hope I haven't seen it yet.

maximius smile.gif thanks for the post. laugh.gif




UM YOU MISSED THE JOKE MATE I WOULDNT ASK OR SUGGEST FOR ANYTHING TO BE REMOVED OFF THIS GREAT SITE REGARDLESS OF MY POINT OF VIEW IT WAS A LARRY JOKE ABOUT THE DOC NOT A REQUEST TO REMOVE A POST
ghost365
Its interesting isnt it? Saying you beleive 9/11 was an inside job is like drawing a line in the sand. Some just WONT cross that line, its as personal as religion
Wingnutt
QUOTE(SL3YR @ Nov 1 2009, 08:46 PM) *
UM YOU MISSED THE JOKE MATE I WOULDNT ASK OR SUGGEST FOR ANYTHING TO BE REMOVED OFF THIS GREAT SITE REGARDLESS OF MY POINT OF VIEW IT WAS A LARRY JOKE ABOUT THE DOC NOT A REQUEST TO REMOVE A POST


Oh, sorry I missed the joke smile.gif
maximius
QUOTE(omnitribe @ Nov 2 2009, 03:34 AM) *
The only problem with that version of the story is that it's physically impossible. All 3 buildings feel at nearly free fall speed, which implies that there was 0 resistance from the structural steel holding up these buildings, and implies that thousands of tons of structural steel was magically removed from beneath the collapsing buildings. It's impossible to explain what happened without the use of a controlled demolition, bottom line. The latest investigation doesn't even explain the mechanism of collapse, and they ignore a lot of evidence.

Its not physically impossible,youre just ignoring the evidence and solid facts that does not fit your highly speculative theories.
I will go so far as to say that noone can prove 9/11 was an inside job,that is for one simple reason..it wasnt,,'
Can I prove beyond reasonable doubt that the "official" story is true..yes in fact..
Full NIST report:here is defenitive proof that at least the "controlled demolition" fringe theory hold no merit whatsoever..
You may choose to ignore this or call it government disinformation/psyops,but it wont go away..
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion,however he/she is not entitled to his own facts.

Maybe you should direct more of your time to support the hard strained military?,...
One place to start is Soldiers Angels...you dont know how much it means for a grunt on deployment just to get even the most basic packages from home...
MrFunyun
yeshhhhhhhhhh, maximus strikes again, my hero!!!







litha
QUOTE(mark8 @ Nov 1 2009, 05:17 AM) *
That would be the part where they explain that the video is running at 1 frame per second and that a plane travelling at about 500mph doesn't get caught on tape clearly and especially low quality video. You can do the math on that if you like but the analogy below is succinct enough.

Analogy: Stare straight forward, (your eyes being the camera) now wave your hand from right to left rapidly in front of your face. Even with your palm facing you, it is not recognisable as a hand. Even though you kow it is your hand, all you can see is a blur.
Fly two planes at about 500mph into buildings, they are gonna fuck shit up.

Only The Twin Tours had the above happen to them, plane - building - fire = devastation.

Three buildings didn't explode, they fell to the ground because of structural damage.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc is the bread and butter of conspiracy theorists, the same logical fallacies employed by creationists and you here. So far this is all that has been used. You don't have evidence of x therefore inside job.

Example: You can't show me footage of the pentagon plane therfore inside job.
You can't show me a crocoduck (transitional form) therefore God did it.



Video is at least 30 fps, Higher HD is at least 60 FPS. The pentagon, I'm sure is at least HD. Its the standard now for face recognition.
The Planes estimate speed was 400 mph and you can catch it on tape. Although it will be slightly fuzzy but you will be able to see the "plane". I just have a problem on the government not releasing to video to prove its point.


"You can't show me footage of the pentagon plane therfore inside job."
Nope just something fishy or fucked up




emoticon-0110-tongueout.gif
bukcherry
I think people believe just because these buidings didnt fall over sideways that someone must have gone to every single load bearing point in these buildings on every floor and placed charges there , this idea has to be one of the most far fetched stories i think ive ever heard . Its so clear that the buildings fell from the points where the planes hit , once you have millions of tons forcing its way down whatever you put in the way wont stop it . My suggestion is stop watching amateur wannabe documentary makers trying to put unbelievable ideas into peoples heads .
maximius
QUOTE(litha @ Nov 2 2009, 03:49 PM) *
Video is at least 30 fps, Higher HD is at least 60 FPS. The pentagon, I'm sure is at least HD. Its the standard now for face recognition.
The Planes estimate speed was 400 mph and you can catch it on tape. Although it will be slightly fuzzy but you will be able to see the "plane". I just have a problem on the government not releasing to video to prove its point.
"You can't show me footage of the pentagon plane therfore inside job."
Nope just something fishy or fucked up


emoticon-0110-tongueout.gif

You(truthers) disregard credible sources and make up your own "facts"(many from unreliable 3d party internet sources like "loose change") wich in turn gets treated with convoluted logic ,throw some paranoia into the mix and voila you got the" 9/11 truth movement".

But im gonna pretend I take you(truthers as in plural) seriously for a moment..
QUOTE
Claim: Two holes were visible in the Pentagon immediately after the attack: a 75-ft.-wide entry hole in the building's exterior wall, and a 16-ft.-wide hole in Ring C, the Pentagon's middle ring. Conspiracy theorists claim both holes are far too small to have been made by a Boeing 757. "How does a plane 125 ft. wide and 155 ft. long fit into a hole which is only 16 ft. across?" asks reopen911.org, a Web site "dedicated to discovering the bottom line truth to what really occurred on September 11, 2001."

The truth is of even less importance to French author Thierry Meyssan, whose baseless assertions are fodder for even mainstream European and Middle Eastern media. In his book The Big Lie, Meyssan concludes that the Pentagon was struck by a satellite-guided missile ‚šš€šš part of an elaborate U.S. military coup. "This attack," he writes, "could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel."


Hole Truth: Flight 77's landing gear punched a 12-ft. hole into the Pentagon's Ring C.
FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.

Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide ‚šš€šš not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

source
Claim: The damage to the Pentagon was completely inconsistent with a Boeing 757?

Truth: Studies by NIST, the ASCE and Purdue University, including computer simulations show that the damage was perfectly in keeping with a crashing airplane.
QUOTE
Flight 77 Debris
Claim: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"


Aftermath: Wreckage from Flight 77 on the Pentagon's lawn ‚š€š proof that a passenger plane, not a missile, hit the building.

FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"



Wonder if you can present irrefutable proof to support your theories,and not just come with wild speculations or stuff that is at best highly curcumstasial and would be thrown out in a court of law, as the burden of evidence is on your part...and your theories pretty much has been disproven?
QUOTE
"You can't show me footage of the pentagon plane therfore inside job."
Nope just something fishy or fucked up
Ok Litha..thats fair enough..Ill be the first to admit that.
maximius
QUOTE(MrFunyun @ Nov 2 2009, 02:41 PM) *
yeshhhhhhhhhh, maximus strikes again, my hero!!!


(EDIT:this is where I assumed Mrfunyun was on the truther side:P,but the rest of the message still stands)
"Nice" and "relevant" reply...if you truthers cant stand the evidence against your theories, and/or present something proof of an equal credible source to counter it.
I suggest you write an open letter apologizing to all the victims of 9/11(victims) families wich relatives you have tainted the memory of,same with the families of OEF/OIF/ISAF's KIA's and WIA 's(this is where this gets personal).
Apologize ..this is 2009,,you were wrong,its time to stop this crap now..
maximius
QUOTE(MrFunyun @ Nov 2 2009, 07:05 PM) *


Woops,sorry ..a lil blue on blue there:P
I thought you were being sarcastic or a truther with an attitude..again sorry.

Edit: when I say "thunder!" your supposed to yell "Flash!" muhahaha:P:P
maximius
crypto
QUOTE(mark8 @ Nov 1 2009, 06:06 PM) *


Nice photos. Here is some text
QUOTE
Unfortunately, such images are very hard to come by since: (1) Much of the debris was burned and torn beyond recognition, (2) Most FEMA photos in the public domain were taken on 9/14/01, after much of the debris was cleared out of the building, (3) Most other photos remain in the private hands of investigators, rescue workers, and others who were inside the building. Many images are officially classified.

1. Very convenient and shows a cover up.

2. All parts that survived are so small they could have already been in the building...

3. This looks it could be a part of a rocket propelled engine... but thats just me and I'm not a rocket scientist


4. Looking at the inside photos one can see utility conduits and various other building parts that survived. This is strange since the landing gear of a large airliner is made of high tensile titanium alloys and much stronger then the recycled steel used in fire suppression systems, or gas lines, or electrical lines. If most of the landing gear was destroyed then I would expect too see more damage to the building.
QUOTE
The plane hit between the first and second floors, which is why there is not the earth/grass (AKA crocoduck) damage you wish to see.

This has me scratching my head... in order to hit the building exactly in the middle like that, the airliner would have to be flown with uncanny precision; something I would not expect from a bunch of goat herders just out of a crash course(no pun intended) in small aircraft.

QUOTE
Thank you, but my vision is fine

are you sure...?

Skamp
QUOTE
1. Very convenient and shows a cover up.


Only in the mind of a 'Reds under the bed' type of invividual.
crypto
QUOTE(bukcherry @ Nov 2 2009, 05:05 PM) *
I think people believe just because these buidings didnt fall over sideways that someone must have gone to every single load bearing point in these buildings on every floor and placed charges there , this idea has to be one of the most far fetched stories i think ive ever heard . Its so clear that the buildings fell from the points where the planes hit , once you have millions of tons forcing its way down whatever you put in the way wont stop it . My suggestion is stop watching amateur wannabe documentary makers trying to put unbelievable ideas into peoples heads .


yeeeah, you might want to spend some time as an iron worker, and maybe a course or two in physics... like me emoticon-0126-nerd.gif

The buildings would most certainly topple towards the weak side and most definitely not straight down into a pile of rubble.
Like This
Or these all done by professional demo experts! lol

Heres how they build them
Supertools: Skyscrapers
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=586WFI83

Pretty strong stuff and takes alot to turn them into little bits and pieces.
crypto
QUOTE(Skamp @ Nov 3 2009, 07:25 PM) *
Only in the mind of a 'Reds under the bed' type of invividual.


Better then a "Ignorance is bliss, so don't look" type of individual
Skamp
QUOTE(crypto @ Nov 3 2009, 07:28 PM) *
Better then a "Ignorance is bliss, so don't look" type of individual


Explain to me the benefits of the conspirators flying a plane into the pentagon,what would be the point when they would've achieved their goal with the Twin Tower hits ?


To be clear,i think you,and people like you,who buy into the crazy theory are all nut jobs,but i would love the hear WHY.
bukcherry
Donald Rumsfield was present at the Pentagon when the events happened , not the best place to be for a Government member who is supposed to be part of this huge Republican conspiracy i wouldnt think .
omnitribe
QUOTE(Skamp @ Nov 3 2009, 08:37 PM) *
Explain to me the benefits of the conspirators flying a plane into the pentagon,what would be the point when they would've achieved their goal with the Twin Tower hits ?
To be clear,i think you,and people like you,who buy into the crazy theory are all nut jobs,but i would love the hear WHY.


Lol, are you serious? It's called a 'False Flag Attack' and our country has used these before as a pretext for war. (i.e. the Gulf of Tonkin Incident) They create the problem so that they can offer us their solution.

And why would we want to go to war? Hmmm... Money, power, control maybe?

You can use ad hominems all you want to attack us 'nut jobs' but we have science and reality on our side. The science is out, there's no way that those towers collapsed due to jet fuel and office fires, it's laughable at this point.
mark8
QUOTE(omnitribe @ Nov 4 2009, 06:03 AM) *
Lol, are you serious? It's called a 'False Flag Attack' and our country has used these before as a pretext for war. (i.e. the Gulf of Tonkin Incident) They create the problem so that they can offer us their solution.

And why would we want to go to war? Hmmm... Money, power, control maybe?

You can use ad hominems all you want to attack us 'nut jobs' but we have science and reality on our side. The science is out, there's no way that those towers collapsed due to jet fuel and office fires, it's laughable at this point.


So you keep saying but nowhere do you actually present any science, just your insistence that this 'science' exists. So please again, enlighten us with the science?

Persomnally I don't know anyone but conspiracy theorists who profess the towers fell due to jet fuel and fire. They fell because two great big fuckin planes flew into them, severing the load bearing structures, weakening others. The weight above could not be supported so the structural supports gave way, then the upper mass crushed everything below as it fell.

But hey if you have science that refutes this then please don't keep us on tender hooks.
mark8
QUOTE(crypto @ Nov 3 2009, 07:16 PM) *
yeeeah, you might want to spend some time as an iron worker, and maybe a course or two in physics... like me emoticon-0126-nerd.gif

The buildings would most certainly topple towards the weak side and most definitely not straight down into a pile of rubble.
Like This
Or these all done by professional demo experts! lol

Heres how they build them
Supertools: Skyscrapers
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=586WFI83

Pretty strong stuff and takes alot to turn them into little bits and pieces.



Cheers for repeating old and tired canards. The first link has a building who's ground or lower level has been blown away (similar to an axed section of a tree) the structure above this damage is the majority of the building. The weight of this just like a tree will lean against the weakened side. Same as the second youtube clip, yet another demolition which failed to completely sever the load bearing supports meaning it was too top heavy and fell to the weakened side.,

The twin towers was a totally different kettle of fish, the planes severed upper level structural supports, there was still a substantial amount of weight above but not top heavy as in your claim. Buildings are demolished by bottom up means, the twin towers fell top down.
dumbsaint
QUOTE(mark8 @ Nov 4 2009, 07:03 PM) *
Cheers for repeating old and tired canards. The first link has a building who's ground or lower level has been blown away (similar to an axed section of a tree) the structure above this damage is the majority of the building. The weight of this just like a tree will lean against the weakened side. Same as the second youtube clip, yet another demolition which failed to completely sever the load bearing supports meaning it was too top heavy and fell to the weakened side.,

The twin towers was a totally different kettle of fish, the planes severed upper level structural supports, there was still a substantial amount of weight above but not top heavy as in your claim. Buildings are demolished by bottom up means, the twin towers fell top down.


Leaving the twin towers aside, building seven did not have its 'upper level stuctural supports' severed. No plane hit it. Some debris hit a corner of it (far less than some adjacent buildings, which have large shards of the twin towers imbeded in them). We're still asked to believe an office fire took it down in a manner which looks an awful lot like a controlled demolition. At least a lot more like one than an office fire as nist claims. Nist have admitted to free fall during part of the collapse on this building also.

There's enough doubt to warrant a second investigation. The original commission that looked into it feels that they were "set up to fail". That fact alone should have people clamouring for one. There's certainly a better explanation for all of this than underskilled terrorists or boogiemen globalists. Someone just has to be allowed to look into it.
nahsik
QUOTE(maximius @ Nov 2 2009, 01:33 PM) *
Maybe you should direct more of your time to support the hard strained military?,...
One place to start is Soldiers Angels...you dont know how much it means for a grunt on deployment just to get even the most basic packages from home...


Oh wait the same soldiers who are in Iraq to find the 'supposed' weapons of mass destruction? I'm sorry but your government is pulling the wool over your eyes and they have done it time and time again and yet you keep supporting them. Yeah the same government who have funded terrorists like your taliban for their military coup and civil wars. Ignorant people like you are too lazy to get off their butts and do some research on the internet. This ain't no conspiracy about CIA funded wars or false flag attacks. Maybe use those two key words on google and see what turns up?



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