Joe Jordan - Unholy Communion 2009
The Spiritual Nature of Abduction Reports
http://vimeo.com/5902168


Ancient of Days - Christian Symposium on Aliens

This segment features answers to questions posed by Moderator Guy Malone from a panel of Authors and Scholars with expertise in the field of UFOs and the Alien Abduction Phenomenon according to the word of God.

Pt.1 http://vimeo.com/5673641
Pt.2 http://vimeo.com/5680391

The top three Alien Abduction researchers , Budd Hopkins, Dr. David Jacobs, Dr. John E. Mack (Deceased), have already stated there is nothing to the claims of the religious nuts who believe aliens are demons.

Dr. David Jacobs has publicily criticized religious nuts who claim that praying or saying the name of Jesus will stop aliens from abducting people.

All three researchers have stated that the phenomena involves "flesh and blood" (so to speak) beings that are actually taking people from their environments, and not spirits or demons who make the occasional bedroom visit.

Budd Hopkins, a probable Atheist (has spoken about a lack of belief in religion, though I do not know if he believes in a God), has recounted several experiences of formerly religious abductees who have lost their faith due to ther experiences, i.e. "praying to God or Jesus doesn't help".


But what I really want to point out is why the belief that Aliens are demons is so prevelant among Christians. Well, I personally believe that such beliefs are actuall a preemptive strike against the phenomena. Christians spread propaganda, trying to sway minds of people that this is a spiritual phenomena in order to prevent any damage to their religious faith should the phenomena be proved as a real occurance. To put it another way, If aliens are really abducting people then it's evidence that religion is false, as the majority of religions depend on humans being central to the creation of the universe and do not allow "higher beings" other than those pre-assigned (angels, demons, saints, etc..)


So, IZA....let me be brutally honest with you. Any talk about Aliens being demons is pure B.S.

The truth of the matter is either we are dealing with a real phenomena, just what abductees are reporting, or it is fantasy and is not real. Case closed.

Also wanted to add that Billy Graham wrote a book on Angels, which I read, and in it he speculates that UFO/Aliens are Angels and Demons, with the "good aliens" being Angels, and the "bad aliens" being demons.

I do not share his beliefs but at least he was open-minded enought to consider the phenomena to be possibly angelic and not totally demonic in nature.

I should stress the point that Billy Graham did not claim that Angels and Demons were impersonating aliens, but that rather Angels were "good aliens" and Demons were "bad aliens".

Do you even watch these videos before you post your comments Star? Joyce Ahrens was a abductee and a devote atheist and was tormented for years until she turned to Jesus Christ and one night they came for her and she called onto Jesus to help her and she has never been bothered by them again. There is way to many testimonies like hers for you to making comments like you are! http://www.alienresistance.org/ce4testimonies.htm You are in denial! I also have a friend that prayed the Lords prayer aloud when a space craft hovered over is truck and it left in a blink in a eye. I know the bible says there will be a great deception in the last days that could fool even the elect (((COUGH))) Billy Graham. I find a problem when people like you Star listen to the investigators and not to the people that ACTUALLY experience this horrific intrusion on their life!!!!!!!!!

I first want to point out that I flat out don't believe you or her, iza. If a person were trying to make a convincing case in this on the christian side, then they would have EVERY reason to lie about their past beliefs for the obvious reason that you have already presented...trying to make it seem convincing, and especially to people who are atheist. It is i'm sure seen as okay to lie about faith (or past faith) for the good of jeebus, so telling people that she used to be atheist only helps her cause. However, on the other side of the argument, lying about the deity not helping them and their impending disbelief would definitely be something that someone as thoroughly indoctrinated as yourself, iza, would look upon as a surefire shot to hell.

Secondly, I want to point out that we are truly discussing the possibility that aliens are demons............
I seriously have to sit back and wonder how some people can truly sit there and say that they believe some of the things they truly believe and keep a straight face...let alone totally mean it. Seriously, all I can say is "Wow.... Fucking wow."

I know that everything I say here, and all attempts to bring reason and reality into the conversation are futile because iza will have a retort that she can throw at it. Not only am i sure of that, but i am also sure that it will be written by some new thoroughly indoctrinated nutjob with a total and complete bullshit title (ie. Guy Malone from a panel of Authors and Scholars with expertise in the field of UFOs and the Alien Abduction Phenomenon according to the word of god). I can also say that in my mind (a reality-based mind, influenced heavily by science, logic, and reason), aliens AUTOMATICALLY have a ginormously larger advantage when it comes to the odds of being a POSSIBLE truth. I think that since the sheer number of stars that could possibly have solar systems with life-sustaining objects in them is OVERWHELMING. Whereas the likelihood of something that has NO basis in science or physics (or reality for that matter), by definition of it being SUPERNATURAL, has as close to no chance as anyone could ever possibly get to zero.

I have already spent too much time on this for the reasons I already stated ( )...my head is starting to hurt from the essence of closed-minded and brainwashed stupidity emanating from the thought of iza and her bible thumping, jeebus loving, indoctrinated (mindless, hate mongering, homophobic, self-fulfilling apocalyptic prophesying, etc.) comrades.

I think its time I just sit back, burn one down, and just thank god (lol) that I am not too weak-willed to be trapped by such utter nonsense. So, I leave you with one last true jeebus-style sentiment, and probably the only one that will have come about in the entirety of this topic, PEACE.

hate to do this iza, but i got proof your wrong!
right here
translations also provided farther down the page.

Iza, you obviously have no inkling about this subject matter at all do you?

Firstly, you do not superimpose something that has no evidence onto something that we do not yet understand. That is called ass about going backwards.

Secondly, you claim that the amount of people that have called jesus' name during an abduction have been helped or that the abduction has stopped? BULLSHIT. I have an avid interest in the UFO subject Iza, and as such listen to a lot of researchers both in the UFO and abduction arena (Joe Montaldo, Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs etc ) . They all say say that nothing happens when jesus' name is mentioned (and Joe Montaldo believes in your god Iza)

Not everything is about your bloody religion Iza. I really wish people like you would stop trying to impose your beliefs into every facet of study out in the world today. To even contemplate doing this requires that your beliefs have actual evidence and scientific backing in the first place. Even then, enough evidence has to be garnered from the UFO field, and to be perfectly honest, nothing from what I have read or seen even comes close to being "spiritual" or religious in any sense.

So, keep your sticky beak and ridiculous ideas out of areas that seriously don't require it. Ufology is on shaky ground as it is, it is bullshit like what you have posted that makes it even more unstable in the eyes of the general public.

This is one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes and if anything happened like this today I can see dumbass people like you and Star falling for it, because you don't look at all the evidence before you decide. You only see what you want to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtInaXXzqlA...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8eJfdGFswY...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4hGAd7mWOg...feature=related

Bon Appétit SUCKERS!!!!!

You know Iza, it's really funny. You always tell us that we only see what we want to see.

How many times do we have to tell you this? We look at the observable evidence, we look at proven theories and facts. That is what we see. You always contradict yourself when you type these stupid little soundbites. You are the one that chooses what you want to see, you completely dismiss all the available evidence because it doesn't fit your weak little world view, your bronze age idea of morality and belief. If the observable and available evidence doesn't fit into your little black book of fairy tales, then you choose to not look at it.

You seem to think that we don't look at the bible and "see" the evidence. The problem is Iza, is that there is none. Nadda. Squat. Zip. Zilch. I'm not the first to say that if there ever is any evidence of gods existence then I will be more than happy to change my opinion on the matter.

And another thing, there seems to be something that you are deathly afraid to say, it really does not seem to be in your vocabulary.. that is the sentence "I don't know". You should try it one day Iza. I constantly change my views and opinions on things because I am not afraid to say "I don't know". If somebody proves me wrong about something, it really is a great feeling because I have learned something new. That is what is so great about being a rational thinker. I am not chained to any religious dogma that tells me what to think, how to act. I am free to change my views, opinions and free to learn.

"I don't know" really is a liberating thing, to know that you don't know something is one of the best things you can ever know about yourself, it means that you will learn something down the line. Try it sometime Iza. Waken that stale and brainwashed subconscious of yours.

Joyce Ahrens testimony and the rest of the people that went up to the stage at the end of the video was not a sound byte! Idiot!

you do this every time you open your mouth. everything you believe and preach has zero evidence. you are the same as what you accuse others of being.

So you take their word as gospel truth huh? As soon as they even mention anything about your retarded religion, you automatically believe it? How about the untold thousands of other people that have tried using god or jesus' name to ward of these nasties, with absolutely nothing happening?

Get a fucking grip Iza, you seem to be losing more and more sanity everyday.

Like Ultra has already said, you need proper professional help, you really do.

Joe Jordan is the MUFON State Section Director for Brevard County, Florida. Brevard County is the home of
the Kennedy Space Center. Joe has been involved in the field of Ufology for sixteen years, becoming a MUFON
member in 1993. It wasn't long before Joe began to see that to get to the truth of the UFO phenomenon you
would need to get to the closest point on contact, the abduction experiencers. In 1994 Joe Jordan co-founded
CE4 Research Group to expand his research and document the findings of his work with the Alien Abduction
Experience.

It is you that needs to get a grip! You will follow any specialist as long as he/she tells you what you want to hear. Stop looking at the evidence you want to hear and listen to it all no matter how much it terrifies you. I know the thought of there maybe a God scares the crap out of you and that is tough crap...suck it up and get some balls! Because of your ignorance you are being left wide open for being a abductee. That is a fact like it or not. I pray this never happens to you are any of you.

Jordan and his partner, Wes Clark, have begun a research group called CE-4 (close encounters of the fourth kind), dedicated to studying alleged alien abductions. Its 15 members also belong to MUFON, but "nothing we do is necessarily sanctioned by [MUFON leadership]," says Clark, a quality control engineer at Kennedy Space Center.
source

you missed part of it. you cant really use the MUFON connection to give credibility when the organization dosent sanction it.

Jordan and Clark swear they have three verifiable cases in which apparent abduction experiences were halted by believers who called on the name of
Jesus.
3. wow. verifiable? really. they swear they do.

"It makes you wonder: If these beings are extraterrestrial at all, why would they respond to that name?" Jordan asks. "We think we found the answer in the Bible, in Mark 16:17 where Jesus said, 'In my name, they shall cast out demons.' That seems to be exactly what we came across."
wow. come up with an idea, look for something that sounds about right and fits your idea, presto! proof!

Iza, MUFON was discredited as a serious institute of research a longtime ago. There is so much in fighting and bickering between researchers.. especially Joe Jordan, because of his belief in the spiritual side of things. That belief that it is angels and demons is NOT taken seriously in ufology. For very obvious reasons.

You really didnt read a single bloody word I typed before did you? I DON'T FUCKING "CHOOSE" WHAT TO BELIEVE! I look at the available evidence, then make sensible and logical conclusions provided by the evidence. YOU are the one that chooses what to see and what not to see.

And no, how can I be scared of god when there is 99.99% probability that he doesn't exist? I am not the one being ignorant Iza (well, at least not on the UFO topic.. which is something I do know a great deal about). However, EVERY person on the face of the planet is ignorant to one extent or another... here is the kicker with you however.

Ignorance = a person not knowing something.
Stupidity = a person that has all the evidence before them but will still not accept it. They are no longer ignorant as they have hard evidence before them.
Lying = When a person that was ignorant, but now knows what the truth is but lies to gratify their own belief or to line their pockets.

Which of the above do you fall in Iza? Well, I can now safely say that you are no longer ignorant as we have on hundreds of occasions layed out the evidence before you. So you are then either stupid or lying. And seeing as you will not admit to being stupid, you then align yourself with the lying section. See how that works Iza? So, how about it, either you admit to lying.. to yourself, to your family and to everyone around you or you admit to complete and utter stupidity, seeing as we have given you all the explanations and evidence you could possibly need whilst you have given us nothing of the sort.

So which is it Iza? Are you stupid, or are you lying?

You may go on to say that I am one of the above. Well, yes.. I am ignorant of many things. But religion and this topic is not one of them. I am not stupid because there has been NO evidence layed out before me to validate gods existence. I am also not lying because I have no "evil atheist" agenda to complete, nor (obviously) am I doing this for money. However, you have a religion and a belief system with an ego that constantly needs to be stroked, because you have fallen into the trap of feeding this ego, you choose not to even examine the full evidence put forward to you. Stupidity definitely falls into this section. Lying is also a great way to feed this belief systems ego, by lying to yourself and everyone around you, it is safe from ever being broken down by logic, rational thinking and evidence. Yet you continue to astound us with your complete and utter stupidity when it comes to atheism and even other religions. So I am going to go out on a limb here and go for number 2 for you... stupidity.

So go on, call me ignorant again Iza. I have followed this topic since I was a child, with a very critical and rational eye. You CANNOT superimpose a belief system that has NO evidence onto something that we have yet to explain. This is not logical, it is irrational and is is very far from being FACT. I kindly ask that you step the hell away from this topic before you and your cronies stink it up even more than it already has been by these half baked ideas about angels and demons. For them to even be considered to be a part of this, they first have to be proved to be reality. Until they have been proven to be factual, they have no place in this field of study.

god created us in his image. we are all that is. if aliens are really aliens, then the whole religion thing is wrong. so now they are demons. this way we can stay in our bubble of ignorance and not have to contend with the fact that we might be wrong.

UFOs/Aliens is a subject that fascinates me. All I can say is that if you buy her crap then you are hopeless. If aliens are real, then we are dealing with real beings, like ourselves, but from someplace else. We are not talking about spirits or demons, but real beings.

The phenomena of UFOs/Aliens has nothing to do with religion.

It's funny IZA, because apparantly "religion" is listed as one of the reasons why people feel there is a cover-up of UFOs, because the knowledge would destroy religion.

Seriously IZA, what would you do if an intelligent race was discovered and they had no religion whatsoever. Would you try to convert them? Or would it finally dawn on you that religion is false?

iza keep posting I could use the LOLs

I laughed so hard at this that I almost shit my pants. "A abductee." "to you ARE any of you." LOL

I want you to take a sec hun and read this for me. If you can learn anything from this then it will make your posts a little easier to read. I do appreciate the zeal you have toward your batshit crazy beliefs and the endless entertainment that your posts provide. I just want to help you become a better poster. I can always tell when you used copy and paste. Read this and make it a little harder please.

Articles: A versus An
How do you know when to use the indefinite articles?
"A" goes before all words that begin with consonants.

•a cat
•a dog
•a purple onion
•a buffalo
•a big apple
With one exception: Use "an" before unsounded h.

•an honorable peace
•an honest error
"An" goes before all words that begin with vowels:

•an apricot
•an egg
•an Indian
•an orbit
•an uprising
With two exceptions: When u makes the same sound as the y in you, or o makes the same sound as w in won, then a is used.

•a union
•a united front
•a unicorn
•a used napkin
•a U.S. ship
•a one-legged man
Note: The choice of article is actually based upon the phonetic (sound) quality of the first letter in a word, not on the orthographic (written) representation of the letter. If the first letter makes a vowel-type sound, you use "an"; if the first letter would make a consonant-type sound, you use "a." So, if you consider the rule from a phonetic perspective, there aren't any exceptions. Since the 'h' hasn't any phonetic representation, no audible sound, in the first exception, the sound that follows the article is a vowel; consequently, 'an' is used. In the second exception, the word-initial 'y' sound (unicorn) is actually a glide [j] phonetically, which has consonantal properties; consequently, it is treated as a consonant, requiring 'a'.


Source

Attack the idea not the person. Only people that cannot resolve their point retort with personal slings.

if i were an alien, and i found a planet with life to study, and i went to retrieve a specimen, and it was on its knees with its eyes closed holding two sticks and making nonsense noises to the sticks, i would assume it was broken and find another one. all the other ones are walking around doing stuff. it must have something wrong with it. no scientist studying a new lifeform would pick the broken or messed up ones to study.

or they don't feel like spending the whole night listening to primitive superstitious nonsense. came to far to deal with that. (really long drive. cranky.)

Anecdotal reports are not evidence and eywitness testimony on anything is shaky at best. Evidence in this case would be an actual otherworldly being, their craft or piece of either.

Watch this video and count the number of passes and bounces of the basketball by the people in the white t-shirts.

http://viscog.beckman.illinois.edu/flashmovie/15.php

I can not believe you guys are dignifying Iza's post with intelligent discourse. This subject is so mind-numbingly stupid it defies any sort of logic. Iza picks this crap over the theory of evolution. Enough said. Lost cause.

True, but let's not forget that we have HARD evidence of a phenomena, just not proof of what such phenomena is, meaning that the extraterrestrial hypothesis has yet to be proved.

There are tons of documented cases that do not rely on mere eyewitness testimony, with many cases that have appeared on radar, even multiple radar systems. We have cases that have been spotted in the air via ground sources, spotted in the air via pilots, and spotted on multiple radar systems all simultaneously. So the phenomena is real, it's just that we don't know what it is. We even have tape recordings of NORAD employees claiming NORAD is tracking Unidentified Flying Objects, only to have NORAD officially deny the events later in writting. (And NORAD is exempt from the F.O.I.A., meaning they get to keep secret anything they want to keep secret and there's not a single thing we can do about it.)

So we have hard evidence of a phenomena, just not what is behind such phenomena. Unfortuantely mainstream science would rather just ignore that date. The subject is considered too controversial for most scientists to delve into.

However, we know good and well that the phenomen has absolutley nothing to do with Religion.

Japanese Airlines Flight 1628 UFO Sighting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh5IKmWDmHk

To put it in understandable terms, the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis as an explanation for UFOs has not been proven, however it remains one of the more likelier explanations for the phenomena.