he also said he wouldnt pay 500,000 for Robbie Keane

Thing is we are not throwing money about without selling a load first(look at our academy/reserves,sells plenty from there),and in todays climate no-one can except Madrid(sorry The King of Spain),so it has to be generated.

Thing with Rafa is he should never have sold Keane without making sure he had the money to spend for a back up.
The team and transfers are ultimately his responsibility and he will prosper or fail by his decisions.

I'd still have Keane any day over Berbaflop. He's the EPL's version of Zlatan, without Ibrah's high goal ratio against shit teams of course.

i agree and i feel whatever we achieve (unless we get the title) he should resign. i believe he has taken the club as far as he can.

a manager lives and dies about his results but i will never allow people to blame him for everything. end of the day kwacka, if a manager sells a player for 15m, you would expect that manager to be allowed to spend the 15m, not it going into the owners pockets

if a manager gets 30-35m for a player, again you expect the manager to be allowed to spend it all.

if he had the whole money from alonso and keane, who knows, he may have brought in another cm with aquaman and we could have been fine but alas it was not meant to be. i am still getting to grips of us being in the europa cup soon!

well your manager didnt think he was worth the money he spent and now you dont have any back up.....something i thought we were discussing

and i bet your manager would have Zlatan in a flash at the mo

anyways if you wanna discuss Berba,start a Berba thread......this is all about Liverpool and where its gone wrong

Keane wasn't worth the money we spent - Neither was Berbatov worth what SAF spent. I'd still have Keane over Berbatov, comprende?

Rafa did the right thing by getting rid of Keane though, but like it's been said, it was unfortunate we didn't see any of that money go back into the transfer budget.

As for Ibrah, he still overrated. He is horrid in the big games, much like Berbatov. That's what seperates them from the likes of Torres, Drogba, Eto'o and players who are consistent.

Bottlers.

in your opinion.
Fergie thought he was and also thought Keane was not worth £500,000....and funnily enough i would back Fergies judgement over yours...or maybe his record counts for nothing in comparison to Rafa?

if Rafa was right in getting rid,why did he buy him in the first place?

As i have said this is not a comparison thread,if you wanna compare Berba and Keane feel free to start a thread.
Unless your on a WUM

this thread isnt about berba but for what it is worth, berba is worth 15 max imo.

keane is worth about 12m or so. as soon as keane didnt work out rafa got rid for 15m. nothing wrong with that. most managers carry on with their ego and keep players who are flops.

you just gotta look at nani 18m, anderson 18m, valencia 18m, carrick 18m and so on. i kno thye helped you win the ttile but these players are far from world class. in fact on a footy forum i am on, the united fans all agree their midfield is the weakest out of the top 4 which i agree ith.

your best midfield player is darren fletcher, pretty much says it all with the amount of dosh you spent on others. even squad players cost lots of money as shown earlier with the 4 i mentioned kwacka

like i said, rafa for me should have found some cheap players who turned out to be good. at livepool we dont have money, so we need a great manager to take us a step forward, sadly i think rafa is only a good manager, not a great. so time to move on with him

He actually said Keane was worth £500,000, and you back him on his assessment? Then he is more of a fool then I thought, work the rest out yourself.

Berbatov actually has a worse goal ratio compared to Keane if you compare the correct amount of appearences with the two players, since Berbatov has joined the EPL... I suppose you still think Berbatov is worth £30 million more then Keane?

Pro logic if so.

he said it when Coventry sold him but i suppose you knew that?
so your not gonna start a Berba Thread?

Then why on earth would you quote what SAF said ten years ago about a player we are discussing now? That's like comparing Ronaldo's price when he was back at Sporting to the price United sold him for. No logic.

Berba thread? Everyone knows he's a flop but for Man Utd fans. We all know what the outcome would be before we even created it - Berbatov is a flop compared the the elite of Europe.

in your opinion.....he got one more PL medal than Gerrard/Torres are ever likely to get,which im sure helps him sleep at night.
Maybe there is a medal for the 1st team to take 50pts off us?

what has winning team medals got to do with how individually good a player is? i will tell you, absolutely nothing.

look, i appreciate tams and yourself dont rate the fella.....fine.

i really dont see what Berba has to do with liverpools failings(this thread),but if you wanna change the subject so will i.

Berba is not an out and out forward as some seem to think with their wild comparisons,i brought up your managers shortcomings by selling the only back-up striker he really had(for whatever reason) and hey presto...........Berbas shit,Berbas goalscoring record is nothing blah blah blah.....

now can someone explain to me WTF Berba has to do with Liverpools shortfall this season?

I agree that our midfield is pretty weak right now, we need another top class attacking midfielder and better cover for fletcher. But PLEASE stop with the 'woe is us, we have no money.' Souness who knows more than all of us i reckon, said on sky sports that in rafa's time Liverpool have spent more than anyone except Chelsea. So PLEASE stop with the money claims.

I admit Fergie has made some terrible midfield signings, terrible! And spent way too much cash on average midfielders, but benitez has made just as many howling signings, if not more. He has spent more than fergie in his time at the scouse.

but fergy already had a 150m squad when rafa came

he is playing catch up imo always will

i agree rafa has not done well enough with the players below 10m, the gambles didnt pay off. end of the day, for me it only matters about net spend. we needed a whole new first team, reserve and youth squad.

Nicky Butt has 6 winners medals, your point being?

end of the day i answered that post i made 4 posts back or so.
you changed the subject from the thread title remember to Berba,now you bring Butt into it.

If you really want it explaining,the point is the record books will show that Berba is more successful than any liverpool player over the last 15 years in the PL.
Butt will have been really successful in comparison.....funny eh!

Feel free to get the thread back on track

now its getting worse... with 24 points they are tied with birmingham...
will rafa last the season?

fancy him to get the rest of the season then he will be off at the end of the season

If you take a step back I think he has earned more respect and patience than to have his job come into question over a poor run spanning 2-3 months irrespective.

but hey http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f4WI8ZWOCUo/RbYo..._benitez3ec.gif

confidence is shot to pieces, thing is arsenal created no chances yesterday, an own goal and a wonder strike. we missed a couple of great chances and then the obv pen but end of the day something big needs to change to get the morale back high

...hitme asked whether or not Rafa will be in charge next season,not a game summary! ...

...as a 'pool fan - yes or no? ...

Uhh, even the cockneys said we outplayed them on sunday, just typical fuck up once again.

...just in case you missed it , hitme asked whether or not Rafa Benitez will be in charge of liverpool next season?...

...Tams,yes or no ? ...

Yes mate,the Irony is,if they had the money to get rid of him then Rafa would've been able to buy the players he wanted & i doubt we'd be in the state we're currently in.

Besides all that,Rafa still has our backing & the Owners cannot get into the ground (Hicks was turned away by the police on Sunday).

People are getting the blame but those people are from your side of the pond.

Still think you'll finish above Arsenal?

Not a chance, they'll be lucky to finish above City, Villa and Spurs the way they're dropping points.

i answered that in a post little while back

rafa has my support as does the club but i do feel a change is needed at the end of the season, he took liverpool far as he could

We outplayed them.. Johnson own goal was just typical of our season (He was the best player on the pitch). We will sort ourselves out sooner or later.

Soon as the manager stops playing two defencive fucking midfielders we may get Torres into the game more.

It's bemusing we have Aquaman fit, wanting to play, yet Rafa still wants to play Lucas.. idiotic, even.

tbh in the first half i thought lucas was our best player imo, thing is we dominated, we created some brilliant chances and had a clear pen given turned down. arsenal created no clear chances, own goal and one magic shot was it for them

the team was right to be fair tams, we just didnt take our chances

But regardless of who performed better at the weekend, taking the season so far into consideration do you still think you will finish above Arsenal?

It often makes no difference who plays better in a game, especially between the big four. Arsenal outplayed us but we beat them, we outplayed Chelsea but they beat us, it happens a lot. Amar's right, it's all about taking chances.

tom for me personally it is a tough question, i think liverpool first of all need aquaman fit all season, we dont have sufficient back up for him as he will be the playmaker of the team, on top of that one of gerrard and torres needs to be in the team always

put it this way i dont expect us to get any worse, i am confident of finishing in the top 4 and still at this very time think we will finish 3rd place. i think it will rely heavily on aa, gerrard and torres being fit for the remainder of the season but remember this is almost the same liverpool that got 86 points last season

it is a worse arsenal team than last season i feel, form is temporary and class is permanent. we just need our team spirit back asap and things will pick up. if we dont get that back then we will be in for a bumpy ride

2-0 to portsmouth...
sad sad sad

well played by portsmouth but the red card was a bit much and it was more about wasted chances by pool... imo...

is gerrard playing in the wrong position?
seems he is too far back to make much of an offensive difference...

Red card too much? Over the top of the ball and clean trough the man=straight red
Missed chances by Pool? Pompey fella up front missed an easy header to make it one nil and i dont remember a Pool shot till 30min from the end.

Gerrard out of position.....yes he has to fall back and do Alonsos job so does not have the freedom he had last year,and as a result Torres gets frustrated.

gerrard

5 games in cm

5 wins

lucas and masch in cm we lost 70 percent of our games

utter shambles by rafa, he needs to fcking get the hell out of this club, he is killing liverpool. how he cant see masch and lucas doesnt work against the small teams is beyond me. absolutely no creativity from cm is killing us

oh and no this isnt the fcking owners fault, if anything goes right its apparently due to rafa, anything going wrong is the fault of the owners. you must have a playmaker in our system, without it we are terrible. if aa isnt good enough to start in cm then gerrard HAS to.

Agreed, playing 2 defensive midfielders against bottom of the league is mind boggling, and why is he leaving yossi out? I think he's looking good when he plays. Yossi or Dossena on the left??? How did Dossena get a game today?

I honestly have no fcking idea, i couldnt believe it when i saw the line up

you look at every team, YOU MUST have a ball playing cm to make those forward passes, they dont have to be great but someone average/decent to keep the flow of the system going, united have carrick/scholes/anderson to do this. they keep the flow going, arsenal got fab, chelsea got so many of them. we have nobody playing deep to be the playmaker

honestly we are finished if gerrard or aa doesnt start in cm, the masch is a blessing in disguise, banned for 4 league games, means gerrard or aa will play in cm. i guarantee you will win those games

I repeat

5 GAMES GERRARD IN CM 5 WINS. look i always give managers their fair, hell i was fcking blind enough to still back the french fcker even when he was sacked. rafa has honestly killed my spirit to enjoy watching football, i have lost the fcking passion and i am deadly serious. how he cant see you cannot go with 2 dm who are not playmakers is beyond me

it may work against the big team as they attack a lot but not anyone else. i can only pray rafa resigns tomorrow but i know the guy will want his 5 year contract paid up so he can dry the club up before he goes. he is just as fcking bad as the owners, using the fans blind support to his own benefit and get his way. such a slime ball at times

Ughh, apart from missing Masch/GJ we were full strength today.... lol.

I'd go as far as saying N'Gog was our best player also.. how pathetic.

maybe we were being premature in singing about liverpools demise...
only 5 points back of a shaky arsenal...
still things wrong with the team though they dont seem to be nearly as bad as arsenal's problems (atleast they have a true striker and a good keeper)

i am rooting for arsenal this weekend though... i have fabregas on my team so a hat trick would be nice

we seemed to have sorted out our defence

we still aint very good going forward, in fact I would say we are pretty average but with Kyr being on good form and putting carragher at right back, it has really tightened our defence up

the problem still remains with going forward, you can be successful for long periods with no creativity from the cm, a decision needs to be made at the end of the season if aquaman is good enough to be a creative force in cm, if not, then get rid and bring in a better playmaker

Arsenal have just played the top 2 teams in the league, i expect them start winning again.

And their run in is a lot easier than anyone elses. This is not over by a long chalk.....be interesting to see how they cope with Liverpools hassle and harry techniques.

About time we got back on track, u guys made it easier when Carragher went off, Degen looks as dodgy as Igor Stepanovs

U only started playing the last 20 mins or so, top drawer save from Babel by Almunia though, but over the 90 mins I reckon the Arsenal deserved it

btw Cesc was a bit lucky at the end, wtf was he doing waving his hand around like that

well the are 8 points back of arsenal but arsenal are shaky...
any thoughts about them managing a third spot this year?

I don't see it, even though Arsenal are having a rubbish season, Liverpool are having a worse one. Arsenal will take the three points off of us next game, even though we put a spanner in their works - we won't be getting a season double like Wolves just did.

Liverpool are dropping points to too many teams they should be beating, Wolves - Stoke - Portsmouth - Blackburn - Birmingham - Sunderland and including the 3-1 to Fulham that's 21 points a Liverpool side wouldn't normally drop.

Compare that to Arsenals loss to Burnley and Sunderland.

It's not about taking points off of the other top four, although that certainly helps, it is about consistantly taking three points off all the games you should be getting them from. Something Arsenal has failed to so about twice, compared to Liverpools seven or more times. That's the difference between Europe and the rest of the top ten.

What does Liverpool expect - their midfield is as bad as ours, I'd still have a fully laden with pies Andy Reid over Lucas anyday.

80mins to break a team down that has not played competitively in 6 weeks....dire however you look at it.
Good of the crowd to get behind them.

Fair assessment of last night i felt

no Kwacka, he was yawning as thats what it feels like to be a liverpool supporter these days.

Job done we won does not matter how it was done the result is the main thing.