"This film is astonishing, it goes in detail through the untold history of The Project for the New American Century with tons of archival footage and connects it right into the present. This film exposes how every major war in US history was based on a complete fraud with video of insiders themselves admitting it. This film shows how the first film theaters in the US were used over a hundred years ago to broadcast propaganda to rile the American people into the Spanish-American War. This film shows the white papers of the oil company Unocal which called for the creation of a pipeline through Afghanistan and how their exact needs were fulfilled through the US invasion of Afghanistan. This film shows how Halliburton under their "cost plus" exclusive contract with the US Government went on a mad dash spending spree akin to something out of the movie Brewster's Millions, yet instead of blowing $30 million they blew through BILLIONS by literally burning millions of dollars worth of hundred thousand dollar cars and trucks if they had so much as a flat tire. I have seen a ton of films, this film contains a massive amount of incredible footage I have never seen before anywhere, it is an historical documentary which exposes all the lies of the past so that you can understand the present."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U14cONsdsYQ...&playnext=1

ty... interesting post

Google link full film in one part

Veoh link full film in one part

good one and the google links are great , direct download

Definitely food for thought. Thank you posters and thanks Smarrie for pointing this one out.

Not to point out the obvious..but this film goes in the "PARANORMAL/CONSPIRACY" subforum
<<Can you please post these films where they belong,so people that are looking for them can find them?
Have been several examples lately, where films under that category have been mistposted here in "POLITICS/GOVERNMENT"
Thank you..

EDIT: the poster on youtube is called "InfowarsUK" ,should say it all pretty much..

For sure Massimo Mazzucco has been labeled a '911 truther' after publishing "Inganno Globale" aka 'Global Deceit' (2006). This doc and its overview, however, is increasingly being acknowlged as factual within mainstream media (outside the USA). The TAPI pipeline, in particular, has hit the headlines along with a current labelllng of Karsai as a Unicol/American puppet. I have included the primary source for this information (published 2008) and would love to hear your take/feedback. It is a lengthy read and am therefore hoping you have the time. I have also included an example of an extrapolation for this; defining American foreign policy as the business of 'big business'.

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/documents...oubled_Land.pdf

http://www.paltelegraph.com/opinions/edito...e-dying-for-oil

"No history is mute. No matter how much they own it, break it, and lie about it, human history refuses to shut its mouth. Despite deafness and ignorance, the time that was continues to tick inside the time that is." Eduardo Galeano

Surely this only serves to fortify my original point?
Since when did we trust the media these days?
This is very far from "proven facts",this is in fact a parade of opinions and speculations.
If you go to the Paranormal/Conspiracy forum you will find the exact same type of "videos.
Just because it has a different wrapping doesnt change the fact that its basically stating the same thing.
Real documentaries should be made from an unbiased standpoint ,their purpose is to document.
I have no problem with you suscribing to these theories(even if I have a problem with the theories themselves)..but why not keep it in the forum devoted to exactly these kinds of videos?.

EDIT: you also need to distinguish the TAPI pipeline project from what we are doing in Afghanistan.
Your attempting to state that we solely maintain a presence in A-stan for Economical purposes.
This is simply not true,we maintain a presense there for a whole lot of different reasons..mainly to create stability and peace however hard it may be.
Other objectives comes secondary in the harshest sense of the word...
Also the ISAF force and OEF are two different operations,with different mandates and objectives,even if they appear somewhat similar.

and btw the second link is from "the palestinian telegraph" wich is so far from unbiased media that we could possibly get.

Ok what the hell man your proofs going on youtube names is like saying you're in the army and have to dance to whatever they tell you (In my experience this is fact btw) thus nobody should listen to you (actually this is an even more accurate line of thought). Give examples from the movie if you're so sure it's all make belief. If it's all conspiracy fine but your "this is how it is" approach is rather obnoxious. Debate first army guy.
PNAC is real, oil (and china/that region,block) is the reason you're there period!! Wake up and join the people with their own thoughts not the prechewed media crap (which you don't trust??????).
These are the most biased posts I've ever seen on here!
You live in a bubble that amazingly most people have recognised for what it is yet you expect people to support the war effort in those countries US has something to gain while dismissing the reality of warfare, the reasons aren't noble, reasons are profit and future strongholds. If we can trust the army on it's word we can trust the palestinian telegraph twice on their word I say.
Lack of style pisses me off!!!!

Golly gee, I wasn't asking for any feed-bag regurgitation of shape-shifted military manipulated say so. Watch and read instead of barking out the programmed POV.

P.S. 'Balloon Boy' was also an inside job done in the name of greed...although the follow-up had far more media coverage shadowing the flury of fury over its decietful dissembled fabrication. Why?...intentionally omitting information is a 'programming' transmision tactic of the corporate owned American media (John Pilger).

Just read your response...is their an echo in here or what?

Pretty juvenile reply.
How the hell would you even know even know the first thing about the realities of warfare??,I would like to know that.
I presented the things I stated as opinions,except the things that I have experienced first hand and know for sure are undisputable facts..
Your whole post remind me of my 7 year old nephew when he doesnt get the toy he wants at the toy-shop ,when were at the mall.
If you had payed attention to the essence of what I wrote,you would have realized I simply am objecting to this video being posted the wrong place,and adding some opinions of my own in reply to smarries post.
Also accusing a vet for not recognizing the "realities of warfare" is a pretty moronic statement ,and falls on its own unreasonability.
Think, Type ,Post..Prechewed media crap? My opinions are based on personal experience from living around the world,being deployed to the actual place we are discussing and studying of other indepedent sources like books,archives , not to mention having family that have served in almost every war in this century in addition to internet sources...
I dont like to add insults to arguments generally..but you sir are a complete moron!

No there's no echo here.

You're a tool smarrie. An eloquent, morbidly ignorant tool.

No matter what I would reply my suspicion is that you would label it "feed bag regurgitation",just as I would label some of your views in a similar fashion.
You asked for my opinion,you got it..that you disagree is completely fine.

The juvenille part is serving in the military and believing you're unbiased. Anyone who lives on this planet in the west has the option to read books visit librariries and talk to those who teach politics in universities when attending one. I'll trust them any day over some stuck up army going school leaver thank you very much part of the problem with this planet. Now run back to your commander and try to have a reasonable discussion with him about these facts! I bet you don't dare!! Your whole attitude reminds me of a 6 year old playing with his toy soldiers. Go shoot some civilians and feel like a man! Run along, wave your peace banner (50+ wars in fifty years yes yes you guys are the good guys, false flags included), see how many people fall for it, moronic brainwashed model citizen.

It's the right response seen your statements are as empty as the crap they want us to swallow.

Drop and give me twenty fool! Hahaha.

LOL! and genuinely so at that. I wasn't half as impressed with the fact that you actually watched all of the vids as I am with the level of your honesty re: '102 Minutes'....

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, and anger leads to hatred, and hatred leads to suffering.” Jedi Master Yoda

P.S. Turn off the TV!

Im personally am not claiming to be unbiased in any shape or form..but on the contrary do I claim that in order to be taken seriously as a documentary maker ,you need to be unbiased or else its basically just propaganda for whatever agenda the documentary maker happens to support.
This should be the basic principles of every news media form,but sadly that is not so.

You are basking in your own self rigtousness,while you are pretty quick to label me with your stereotype of choice of the military,wich Im guessing you derived from movies and the very media you are trying so hard to condemn.
I remind you,we are merely presenting opinions here..
But you seem unwilling to accept other peoples opinions,a trademark sign of brainwashed Alex Jones diciples(see I can use stereotypes as well).

You seem to presume me or anyone else serving in the military lack have any form of education and are mindless robots that exist solely to carry out orders without question and that we kill civillians at will just because were bored or feel like it..you couldnt be more wrong..while its easy for you to simply post links and ask me to read them to make up an opinion on an important subject,I cant simply do the same..there is no place short of enlisting in the military and going to A-stan yourself.

Quoting Star wars in a discussion like this,all arguments aside..that was pretty smooth

Whatever you say, I know my sources are correct in a broader history than personal (biased) experience. I'll never respect macho military stances for being a legit way to "debate".
Opinions need merrit and I don't see no merrit when it comes to a military person shouting his idea as fact. I'm not presenting opinions when it comes to peoples lives and the twistred logic behind the wars going on. There is no room for opinions in these matters for people with a conscience and a broader scope on history than their daily bread.
You have to be totally mental to enlist in this day and age. Politics don't work but going over there and pissing people off isn't working at all yet that is the best we have. If people wouldn't be part of the army they wouldn't have willing puppets to send to the battlefield (military action at home is a differnt thing but that is maybe 5% otf the story). All respect for free people but freedom isn't something that needs to be bombed out of people who have been under our sole for decennia. Our cards have changed but theirs haven't and aren't going to because of our military presence (Iraq/afghanistan/Vietnam/Korea/...)and if they do change we come in with our free market ideas and rape the country that way. The military is the physical rapist of countrys after which we can mindfuck their culture/economy/people/... whatever we want.

^^You contradict yourself,and you dont even realize it..you dont have any respect at all for the people who's job it is to protect you.
Your so centered around your own ego that its not even funny.. You live in a Scooby doo cartoon(Obama and Bush:I would have gotten away with it if it wasnt for you meddling kids!)

PS:I see that this video finally got placed where it belonged,so I see no further point of arguing..your obviously on the far end of the scale oposite me..
BTW Do you deny the Holocaust as well ?

Do you know what hitler told the german people before his 'storm of terror' aka: (defending national security) began? and what he told the public were his reasons for doing each and every thing that came to the public domain during the war?
Do you think he told them the truth and they all supported the near execution of an entire race? Do you think they would have supported it had they known what was happening and why?

Do you believe that giant multi-national companys/corporations have absolutley zero say in the conduct of the American military? or its Presidents?
(assumption) Do you think that if "they" (being the objects of conversation, the group of people that own/run/control the major buisness/corporations) have any power over the US political or military system (or any other system for that matter) that they wield that unknown ammount of influience over the US with ONLY the best interests of the USA (which they may or may not be 'native'/'loyal' to) at heart?

Do you think that "they" (see above) have ZERO influience over the governments and militarys of the world?
Do you know how the money is generated for presidential elections? or who has influience over the budget of a military/government and how they might wield that (looking very real) 'financial power' over each arm of a country?

I understand there are a lot of questions here, i hope they are worded accurately and that my spelling isnt too bad.
Of course you are not obliged to answer anything i ask, but you seem very sure that your government and military leaders are ALWAYS working in YOUR best interest or the interest of the american people/freedom.
I say this because you seem to refuse all notion of the idea that governments/militarys/multi-nationals have personal, selfish agendas 'sometimes' and are able to achieve those agendas) Understanding this reality (that people sometimes lie and cheat) would mean you had an understanding and so watchfull eye on your actions when basing your actions on the words of the people in 'power'

Please understand that i am simpley tring to get some sort of reaction from you about how these things can be in the world (governments/militarys/multi-nationals lying cheating stealing and killing for untruthfull reasons) and yet you claim there is no reason to doubt our governments/militarys/multi-nationals.
Is it because you have seen war and know it is very bad and very needed (needed is your opinion which your entitled to, but that doesnt remove the question of doubt in world leaders ect ect)? and so i assume because of the experiences you have had where it seemed violence was the only course of action (im not disputing your actions at that time in that experience) that you now believe that all actions carried out by militarys/governments? ect are honest, needed for the protection of vunerable people, and with ALL OTHER AVENUES EXPLORED!

to me, thinking like you do is closed minded, i am open to the fact that our governments/militarys/multi-nationals have told the truth, are you open to the fact they have lied?

many people are open to the fact that people tell the truth and also lie, these docu's/short films are tring to express/voice/show/prove, opinions/facts that are evidence of when they do lie!

think about who you work for, not what YOU want or hope or try to do, but who you work for........ do the people at the top of your power tree (be it obama/some general or whoever) always tell the truth to everyone about what is happening and why? are they always working in the best interest of the people and never bias towards, unannounced to the public, agenda or multi-nationals?

think open, dont say they always lie, dont say they never lie, accept they do both and try to learn/assist/do the act of trting to expose the time when it isnt all roses and peaches and our government/military are all saints! maybe? just.... maybe?

hell, forget the notion of them lying and so be doubtfull and watchfull.... just look at evidence of WMD's!!! they had it, they knew it, they sold it, we were all so scared and right too, nuke/bio is not funny, but then..... oh no wait.... erm yeah... seems that errrr... yeah .. our intell wasnt so good and there erm.... there might not actually be any actual WMD's... but we think there is in super super secret places... even though all evidence says there is not, even our own evidence says there is not.... but hey dont worry... we were just wrong about the WMD's (cos that was a small reason for the war eh?) thats no reason to stop... and absolutely no reason at all to ever DOUBT what we tell you is true.

they dont have to lie for unjust things to happen... it doesnt have to be a massive good and bad conspiracy for people to lie and cheat (yes...even those in positions of power).... people make mistakes....surely you understand that, so then surely you can at least be dilligent in all investigations of your governments/militarys honesty and or accuracy before going off to fight and kill? or support them in any way.

make sure you know what you are doing is being done for the right reason and that you are not being mislead for someone elses benifit. please, investigate (on your own) how the financial system in your country works, who has the money, who they donate there money to and what the benifit from it, who owns the "weapons of mass information" in your country and who benifits from friendly media attention and what might they do to get that good media attention or avoid bad media attention?

please, please, i dont believe everything i see or read or get told without at least investigating all evidence, please try to also not believe without question, it only opens the way for potential exploitation. how can you not want to secure yourself against exploitation? (from abroad and at home)

Lol i guess this is the zoned area. Where all the whakaloons can get their fix, nice place! This is where precedents are set. The seperation of the normal and the insane. I dont usually watch stuff in this corner for this very reason, and must debate the way these decisions are taken and to selfishly satisfy my own curiosty, i must enquire as to who makes these decisions, and as to who made this particular decision and as to the reasons why.




When i refer to my dictionary for the word paranormal it says ; Seemingly outside normal sensory channels, Not in accordance with scientific laws.

When i refer to my dictionary for the word conspiracy it says; Act in unison or agreement and in secret towards a deceitful or illegal purpose, Engage in plotting or enter into a conspiracy, to swear together

We have arts and culture; sound, deadly.
We have people places and history; excellent combination.
We have politics and government; ok, not so bad.
We have science, technology and nature; contemplative at first yet appropriate.
we have spirituality, religion and atheism; an ideal grouping of three divergent themes.

Then there is paranormal and conspiracy which is just hard. Its frictional, and constrains the subjects by following a set thought process which is allowed a precedent. Why, having defined these subjects as being in conflict can we continue to lump them in the same place. Whackaloonary this is. I believe it to be extremely important (i am tempted to say, now, but what difference does it make really), that we label things appropriately, not misleadingly and that we do not accept this trend. Are we saying that conspiracies are not in accordance with scientific laws? Are we saying that perceived paranormal activity is part of a plot? No, of course we wish to say neither of these things, and yet people will make these connections whether you wish them to or not. This precedent has already been set.
The only thing i can find to connect these two areas is that they could both be considered theoretical. But is this theoretical in nature? Automaticly you then say that the grounds for such debate must take place beyond the fringe of what is considered normal or ordinary and so marginalise by doing this. People have adopted beliefs that are simply wrong, We must label things correctly if we are to label them at all. I am not saying something like this should be posted under politics and government either, Just that it is inappropriate to place these two subjects in the same place.
When we communicate a word its ability to impart the idea related to its intended use, must be a function of the listener and the speaker must take account of this if he/she wishes the listener to comprehend what is being said. And yet people mean different things by the same word and phrase. We have to learn how to listen in order to truly talk.

All this aside, there is video evidence in this particular film that people who are curious should be aware of, and posting it in the whakaloon directory is a disgrace. Immediately you have impeded the spread of this information by allowing curious and misinformed people to label themselves before they can even get to thinking about it. Think about that!

please write back here anybody that feels the same, we need ideas is what we need....

Mazzucco's insights originally derided as fable "in a world of speculation" (2006) have now acquired the credence..."to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time" [2009]. His facts have finally come to fruition, although it's not no rose garden nor any "condition of complete simplicity"...the reckoning is also "(Costing not less than everything)"

Such a heart-felt reply, it would be a shame to waste such sincerity on the jarhead, please allow me to translate...

Ate up 'maxi' open your eyes and the brain-housing group don't be such a big green weenie...stay safe and avoid the suck in country. R/S

maximius may I suggest watching this: an old mans confession


The fog of war

Documentary about Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense in the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations, who subsequently became president of the World Bank. The documentary will combine an interview with Mr. McNamara discussing some of the tragedies and glories of the 20th Century, archival footage, documents, and an original score by Philip Glass.

I did watch that documentary,and its an excellent piece of journalism,however it was executed from an unbiased standpoint,as every documentary should.
Edit:Might I add that that film is one of my alltime favourite documentaries made.(and IMHO its not a confession,more like reflections on a life well lived)
thank you.
Need I remind you that is merely a discussion,there is no need for personal attacks,I have only replied in that fashion when personally attacked myself.

You draw parralels from the present day US Government to Hitler Germany..something that falls on its own unreasonability.
Of course I do not believe that the Government or NATO act in MY personal interests,but do I hesitate to claim that they act in the interest of the Western people in general(at least in their mind)..no.
You have to forgive me,I cannot participate fully in this discussion with every single one of my opinions..because I have an obligation to not disclose certain things ,in fact I could risk harsh penalties if I did.
Therefore I am somewhat handicapped in this discussion..

Im not a Marine ,so please refrain from calling me a jarhead.
I am however reenlisting in the USMC next year,so wait until then.

If I understand you correctly..you propose that the Paranormal and Conspiracy should be separate subthreads?
If that is so I do wholeheartetly agree,the two have obviously no connections whatsoever,and only serves to further riducule the people that geniunely believes in a cause.
In the spirit of free speech,this is the wrong approach,however much I may disagree with them,that is beside the point.
My objections in the start of the thread were solely intended to object to this video being posted in Politics/government..where it does not belong.

Nice evasive actions. If you can't talk in full then you shouldn't make empty statements you can't (won't) back up. You even can't come with much asked examples (from the doc if nothing else) while hiding behind secrecy. You can react the way you want yet we have to pay respect to the organ squandering this planets tax payers money and the service men flapping their trap in forums?? democracy?? Hello!!!! And you still don't get it huh?? Djeez not one reply is even an answer (or valid attack for that matter) to anything worth debating except maybe your preconceptions. (what exactly is my contradiction cause you're right I have no idea what you're on about)
If nothing else I must say the guys I know in the army are a lot more laid back/logical when it comes to war and it's merrits (maybe because we don't have such a stake in the bullshit war over there).
Good luck overseas let's hope your bubble doesn't burst .

How do you view that as an personal attack?

Its about the man who orchestrated the Vietnam war and now reflecting on what a injustice it was. We killed thousands of our men for not. Just like this war. I really don't understand some peoples blind faith following but I guess its like IZA's defense on religion. If you keep wearing blinders you will always be a mule.

Your presence in the middle east is neither wanted nor justified in the least maximus. I do believe you want to do good over there and maybe you personally have tried. What it has amounted to though is hundreds of thousands of innocent people being slaughtered by the military machine on behalf of their corporate bosses. Open your eyes. I'm afraid for you when down the road you come to the realization that you took willing part in mass murder under the auspices of bringing democracy and freedom.

I did not say that was a personal attack,I just reminded you(plural) on a different note that we are discussing peacefully and theres no hard feelings and resentment on my part..but certain individuals have resorted to personal attacks..sorry if I did not make that clearer ,I was in a rush when I wrote the reply.

I stand behind my earlier statements fully,I am pretty laid back myself..its you that are all up your own rear end about this whole thing.
If you have friends in the army(when you have repeatedly stated you hate the military?),you should know that its something thats called a security clearance ..
And that is by no means an evasive action,you are acting all high and mighty mr.. please come down to earth..
I am not asking you to support the war.
Its easy to condemn something that does not directly affect you .easy while sitting on your couch eating chips and smoking blunts to just change the channel.
Its not that easy for me,but I volunteered for it so fuck it...bubble ..lol nice going just rehashing my point about you ,and applying it to me..very clever and subtle..you have repeatedly come with personal attacks and generalizations about the military in general,basically saying were all uneducated high school drop outs..very subtle indeed..
Go wage your fantasy "infowar" and get your alex jones fix ,when the New world order is implemented ill be sure to give the order to line you up against the wall first..ooops did I just say that?..I meant ..death to Osama!

It's difficult not to get emotional about the slaughter of women and children by dim-witted soldiers controlled by oil interests.

Actually Maximius I think your a type pf person with a great sense of justice and is trying to do what you think is right. I also think deep down inside, your compassionate and hate to see the hurt of others no matter what the issue is.
But I also think your stuck in a middle of something your inner being is trying to justify,its hard. Just keep an open mind and a clear heart.

All and all I totally disagree with you about this War and what we are doing, I don't like the direction my so called "great nation" has/is been heading after 9/11 and I want to change it.. Growing up, America was something for the world to aspire too, now I believe we are being greatly surpassed and its sad.

We've lost our jobs to oversees, we lost our farms,our small businesses, we are greedy, we are gluttons,we have major problems with our health care system I mean major, we work our people to death and we kill this planet to all abandon (I've seen it happen in my almost 50 yrs change very very radically) and I think its all majorly F$cked and it needs to stop.

(or we will fall like Rome)

Sir..respectfully,have you ever witnessed anything of the kind with your own two eyes?
Do you honestly believe that that is what American and European soldiers and marines do when on deployment?
Yes there have been examples like "haditah" in Iraq..I cannot speak for what those Marines did,nor do I support it in any way,but I do on the other hand understand how it may have happened,this however is a very rare occurrence.
Most civillian casualties in a-stan wich is what I can talk about are direct results of enemy combatant tactics that purpously target civillians ,make them give up their elder son(or they wipe out their entire family),they keep children and women in their fortifications/positions,so when a TIC/Recon calls in an airstrike,they get hit..theres countless other examples...

A lot of my time there went to protect workers establishing fresh water sources ,food supllies,medical care and not to mention build schools..all this would will potentially be in vain if we dont keep our obligations to create peace and stability for a people that havent seen peace,only war for over 30 years..long long before OEF was ever dreamed up..not to mention the fact that in some outlying areas ,the taliban lie in their postions and wait for women to enter or leave the school buildings ,so they can put a well aimed sniper bullet in them,cause after all ..women have no right for an education,to vote,to speak up at all..in short they have no other purpose in their "sharia laws" then to merely exist as slaves for the men..that keep a number of wifes..
And did I mention that most of all the taliban want to enforce their religious "sharia laws" over everything...that is almost like we should enforce the ten commandments like law,and kill everyone that didnt oblige by them...
I think you should think before you post such ignorant statements sir,thank you.

Futhermore the ISAF/OEF forces are not in any way there to preserve fossile energy interests.
What OIF is concerned,I do believe that is a secondary objective,but that makes perfect sense from a military standpoint,so does maintaining some presence in this region..but not ont the level were involved to this date.
If you havent payed attention,we are in fact in the middle of the process of ending OIF.(pulling out of Iraq)

you are joking i hope?

you can not voice your opinions because in order to prove your opinion you would have to say/tell things that are a breach of "national secruity"? is that what you just said?

if so, or if you, as you said, cant say for simple punishment reasons, then that makes me think that you have already given your opinion away and just refused to back it up.

you think that your military leaders and government officials tell you the truth the whole time, never lie, cheat or steal, they are all guardian angels sent from god? and that were it not for your "obligations" you could tell me things that would prove they are all good and never lie, cheat or steal? (i wont expect you to prove they are angels sent from god, but i imagine someone you respect or fear has told you of creationism and you believe that also? do you think modern day wars are religous or even attempts to fullfil real or unreal religous prophecy?)

YOU HAVE MISSED (or ignored) MY ENTIRE POINT 3 TIMES NOW MAXIMUS!!!

PLEASE READ

you know military/government leaders have and still do, lie, cheat, steal, kill... OK!!! im serious now its wake up time.... ok!?!?!?!? you know it happens, in EVRY country all over the world..... they lie to hide corruption, they kill to silence uprising, they overthrow world leaders to impose more profitable leaders....this is NOT CONSPIRACY ... your own government accepts these things.... power corrupts... and absolute power... well you get my drift.

YOU KNOW THEY LIE BUT YOU STILL BELIEVE EVERY WORD THEY SAY!!! ARE YOU BROKEN???

OK?!?!!?!?!? do you see my point?? its not about what facts can or cant be proven.... its not about weather you trust your current president or general..... its not even about if you "think you know" that a certian group of people "deserve" to die.

ITS ABOUT the fact that YOU.... YOU MAXIMUS... YOU KNOW THEY HAVE LIED IN PAST... YOU KNOW THAT!!!!!!!

THEY
HAVE
FREELY
ADMITTED
IT

and yet... knowing this doubt, knowing that your government and military are at the mercy of the giant multi-national corporations, you continue to stand up for and kill for (or go invade a country, putting yourself in the position of being hated by the population of that country and having to 'defend' yourself from 'attack') the very same government/military who you know has and still does lie and may very well be not in charge of decisions at all???... that is also fact btw (the ammount of control is up for rational debate, not the control its self)....... multi-nationals fund your presidents and get them into office(admitted fact.. quite simpley put.... you think the president is loyal to the people or the money?)....... do you think they spend hundereds of millions of dollars on presidents who WONT do what they say?????

forget the news, forget conspiracy central dot com or whatever the latest money hungry truth seeker website promoting their new 29.99 dvd, forget your mum and dad... forget all people in positions of power both civi and military.... and USE YOUR OWN MIND!!!!!!!

MAXIMUS... WHO PAYS FOR YOUR PRESIDENT???? WHO MAKES HIM PRESIDENT??? (please dont say votes make him president, as we all know it a voteing system, i am obviously reffering to how people are aware a candidate even exists)... MONEY!!!!! MONEY GET PRESIDENTS ON TV. MONEY MAKE TV SAY NICE THINGS. MONEY MAKE BAD THINGS GO AWAY.

NO MONEY.... NO AWARENESS....NO POSITIVE ATTENTION FROM MEDIA.... NO VOTES.... NO PRESIDENT!!

if your presidents are loyal to the giant companys that funded and are then responsible for all the money for chat shows and rallys ect that got the votes that won the election.....
if they are loyal to the ones who put them in power.... then who does the president work for?
you?
me?
the people that contribute about 2% towards the cost of running for and winning the presidency?
the people who con tribute 98% of the money that got him the job at the white house?
a carrot?

i know, i know, its a trick question....i picked the carrot 1st too. but actually... *drumroll*

its the people who fund 98% of the cost of WINNING an election..... WINNING NEEDS VOTES... VOTES COST MONEY... NO MONEY = NO VOTES
so the candidate with the richest friends wins, cos he is more places, on TV looking good more often, a better PR team and more money to spend making the other guy look bad.
so the candidate with the most powerfull people as friends wins
do you see where this goes?
do you think i just cracked the masterplan of how to make a president? will they all start doing this now? please maximus, everyone in the western (prob whole) world knows this is how presidents/prime ministers are made

so who funds 98% of the cost of a winning election?

old grannys with there purse out?
clever accounting and shopping at the cheap superstore for a few months?
quitting smoking?
promising that if halliburton or similar war loving giants, spend enough money to get me in, ill do that thing you asked about invade/overthrow/financial cripple blah blah and then cheat by giving all contracts (BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH) to halliburton and others.

in joke i imagine this.

obama: hay halliburton wanna help me with the cost of running for president, oh, i want to win too.
halliburton: yeah sure we can help, but well.... are you the president we want?
obama: what you mean? im behind X and Y and against A and B if thats what you mean?
halliburton: well its more like... are you the type of president to give halliburton ALL contracts worth having in any country we invade?
obama: well, i dunno, that seems a lot!
halliburton: OK, dont worry about it... we will just give our $250 million in campaign donations to the other guy, im sure HE want to be president, even if you dont.
obama: ok ok i get it, either i help you or you will make sure i dont get enough money to win the election?
halliburton: we never said that! we just want friendly presidents..... you are friendly mr obama, arnt you? you do want to be president, dont you?

*fast forward 3 months*

breaking news.......halliburton has confermed its 8th new contract in iraq and afganistan with no bid, its like obama is just handing it all to them on a plate.... and NO1 KNOWS WHY???????


this MAXIMUS is who you basically work for

this maximus is who you KILL for

please, please think about who has all the money, and who is scared of the potential that amount of money has. money can crush governments, bankrupt armys and 180 degree shift public opinion.
please think who spent the money that gets world leaders into power, and what those world leaders might owe for that.

im not saying that killing is wrong on all levels, i dont own the universe, so i cant make such a claim.

but i think its fair to say.. and maximus, i think you would agree... ITS NOT OK TO KILL FOR GREED OR POWER.

thats what your doing maximus, you may well have a good heart, but your OWNERS WHO TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK KILL FOR GREED AND POWER!

please dont miss my point this time maximus. they lie, cheat, steal and kill for greed and power, world leaders ALWAYS HAVE done this, they are STILL doing this.
and that was why i made a similey to your hallocaust reference, hitler lied and his people backed him and look what he did.
UK/USA/bush lied and his people backed him and LOOK WHAT YOUR DOING.

STOP WORKING FOR THE BAD GUYS MAXIMUS!!!!! THEY ARE JUST PRETENDING TO BE GOOD TO GET YOU TO KILL FOR THEM COS THEY DONT HAVE THE BALLS.

EDIT: you wernt invaded or threatened with invasion, noone had threatened to use nukes, a small group of people crashed airplanes into 2 buildings, NOT AFGANISTAN AS A WHOLE - NOT IRAQ - we are still waiting for the massive worldwide connected al'queda thats ment to be everywhere.

WHO ATTACKED YOU MAXIMUS? ALL ARABS? ALL IRAQ? ALL MIDDLE EAST?

my brother is american (well he has usa passport) if he crashes a plane into china's most important landmark, does that mean china is legally allowed to invade USA?

-if they did, would the american people just stand by while china invades saying "usa politics is all fucked up or there is a group of 50 guys in your country that may have had something to do with an extremest, you need better people in power... here, we have chosen these guys to run your country now and we will keep the china army on american soil for as long as we think your country needs it for the protection of the values WE think you should have. and all new social development, building and management of X% of national resources will be managed by CHINA companys."

-and the american people all say: "yey china, thank god they came to save us from the current administration, they were all horrible" or would some americans try and fight back as best they could? understanding its not poss to 100% control borders and so any1 could get in and potentially do/plan anything, "WE will deal with our own fucking country thankyou very much, take your "world peace" army and fuck off home."
you think the americans would ask politely for china to leave?, EVEN if china was claiming to be saving america from its self?

cos thats what your basically doing maximus. you and the people you work for and kill for.

i know you think your doing the right thing maximus, but you think the reasons you have been told for your pressence there are true, and quite simpley they are not.
they are greedy/dominating/fearfull of losing power or control, people telling you/us all (via chain of comand or media) anything they can so that you will MAKE THEM MORE MONEY!!!!!

Wow! the 'classified' clamp down song and dance counter con hide and sneak technique, it's working unjust as well suffocating the current Canadian complicity torture on trial inquiry. US(sic) Canadians have been especially smug for not getting sucked into the neo-con WMD Iraqi expediency and now it seems we are being burnt/broken by the same bumblast of bullshit and roadblocks re: the truth or lie in Afghanistan.

P.S. Your multi-postings are reading more like a multiple personality dissociative identity disorder.

Thats exactly how I would classify you.. you started to reply to my post abt this video being in the wrong place..naturally I replied and kicked up the whole hornets nest of the tinfoil hat wearing element of this site...wich were not few...and you like to write lenghty nonsensical replys accusing me of war crimes etc..and you attack me personally cause I reply and defend myself?
If you had said any of the things stated by truthers in ths thread to any veterans face, you would be picking your teeth 10 seconds later..

Ok its not about that..phew..its just,that I dont think anyone deserves to die..just dont shoot at me,the I will return fire and if you die then,its your own damn fault.


Of course politicians lie,thats part of their job description(And when have I said I believed every word they said?).. You sound like a broken record,I say that my opinions are based on my own experiences in the god damn field!..I have given extensive explanations on why I personally feel that way based on first hand accounts..my own..can you say the same?
Who below DEFSEC level is lying? COMISAF? ,NATO RC© HQ?,my company/platoon CO?
Am I lying too?(Im a non commision officer)...
wow they have?? when did this happen..did santa claus or the prophet messia alex jones tell you this?(give me an example below DEFSEC level)

Im asking for a real argument not just Alex Jones ego fantasies "regurgitation"(to use you peoples own wording)..
Stop believing everything Alex Jones says!
There now I have used the exact same tactics you people have in your postings.
I have voiced my opinions several times,yet you reject them as merely rehashing what my betters tells me..
I stated that you keep asking for facts that I am not at liberty to give you,you use that as ammunition against me and my person to invalidate my own opinions, ..theres no arguing with you..cause in your Alex Jones brainwashed head..you believe you are right Im sure..

I apologize if my emotions got the better of me in my post. You're obviously not dim-witted and as I wrote earlier sound like a sincere person who d like to make a difference over there. My problem with all of this is that as has been lucidly explained by other posters the whole "war" in Afghanistan is a scam. I support to a great extent the conclusions arrived at in some of the docs that have been mentioned in this discussion and I also share in your denouncement of Sharia laws and Taliban's actions towards the people in that country.
That being said I do not believe that any amount of bombing and killing of the bad guys in that country by western forces will solve the problems you enumerate. All that it has done is bring forth a more merciless backlash against the very people you re trying to help. I know you re aware of the Soviets sojourn into Afganistan and how that ended. That is exactly how this one will end as well. There is absolutely no other possible outcome and thinking otherwise is pure hubris on your part and other well meaning soldiers there. Even if McCain's (I think it was he who said it) statement that we'll be there 100 years were to be true, the conflict will continue. As callous as my opinion may seem in face of the atrocities committed by the Taliban and the terrible treatment of females we should have let it be. I say this because even with all the public beheadings that have taken place there prior to the invasion and other crimes against human rights and decency by the Taliban it would have taken them a thousand years to inflict the amount of human suffering that the western forces have in these few years. All of your rebuilding and humanitarian efforts are like a band aid on a neck from which you've sliced off the head.
There are many other conflicts and human tragedies in this world where western aid would alleviate much suffering without causing the amount of bloodshed that these wars have. With all the money wasted on these efforts I cannot began to imagine how much good could have been done if these resources were used to combat hunger for instance. It's the wrong fight. Although it may seem that way, I would not want to disillusion you. Maybe it is people like you who are the drink of cool water for a people caught in the hell of our creation.

There's many truther veterans actually. Crazy rants based on conjecture do nothing but damage a movement that is really just asking for a second look at 9/11 based on certainties like the original commission admitting they were blocked in doing their job. NIST admitting to freefall speeds during the building 7 collapse and so forth. There's enough solid questions to ask for a second investigation without creating a global boogieman to fight. It's a pity that these vocal characters that jump on people and start ranting uncontrollably have become the face of a very important issue. Talk about an uphill battle.

I'm very glad that you've brought this up DS since many veterans are very much pissed at their role in these wars. My best friend is one of them. To counter maximius' notion of truthers worried about their teeth clickety-clicking on the pavement he should understand that being anti these wars does not make those who want to know the truth pacifists.

"...Most civillian casualties in a-stan wich is what I can talk about are direct results of enemy combatant tactics that purpously target civillians ,make them give up their elder son(or they wipe out their entire family),they keep children and women in their fortifications/positions,so when a TIC/Recon calls in an airstrike,they get hit..theres countless other examples..." -maximius

You re an intelligent person I deduce from how you frame your thoughts. Give a bit of thought to the above statement in conjunction with what I wrote earlier.

Indeed theres many veterans thats anti-war but once were in the field and in a TIC..politics and opinions goes straight out the window my friend,as should happen.
My statements about civilian casuaulties are based on owm experience,and if your veteran friends werent "POGues/REMF's/Fobbits" they would most likely agree with this.

I Respectfully disagree sir.

a wise man once said "Afghanistan is where empires go to die"...Lets dont undermine our efforts so that our "empire" dies as well.(read into it what you like)

Most "truther" veterans I highly suspect to be REMF's and Fobbits(rear echelon guys,sitting in the FOB or guarding the gym etc ,that never leaves the wire)theres a certain resentment between us infantry types and REMF's naturally.

I wonder what you base that on beyond the fact you don't like a particular group of people.

I do like how you narrowed in on the part about the army and not the fact that the people who were appointed to investigate 9/11 were unable to. To Quote "We feel that in many ways it was set up to fail"

from the horses mouth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzrv-e37Es8

At the very least, a proper investigation is warranted from that statement alone.


Nevermind that horrifying fact though, get back to your damage control over not all veterans agreeing with you.