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starfkr
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1153114/



Is it possible that Christianity evolved from an ancient Egyptian cult? In fact, is it possible that the historical Jesus never existed? The Pagan Christ is a fascinating journey into antiquity based on a best selling book by Angelican priest, Tom Harpur.

PART 1

PART 2

PART 3

BlackhawkNZ
Its funny, they bring on the theistic scholars in the last third of the doco. They claim that Tom Harpur completely ignored the "evidence" that jesus existed. They then go on to provide NO evidence that jesus existed, only to say that because the gospels were written, he must have existed. Wow, that's some fantastic circular reasoning there.
starfkr
QUOTE(BlackhawkNZ @ Sep 15 2009, 11:44 PM) *
Its funny, they bring on the theistic scholars in the last third of the doco. They claim that Tom Harpur completely ignored the "evidence" that jesus existed. They then go on to provide NO evidence that jesus existed, only to say that because the gospels were written, he must have existed. Wow, that's some fantastic circular reasoning there.



I understand, but did you realize that most Atheistic scholars do accept Jesus as being a historical figure? It's funny, but true. Only a minority suggests that Jesus never existed. Tom Harpur should really be ashamed of himself. I haven't read his book yet, but if the documentary is a fair portrayel of the info in his book then he has definately NOT proved that Jesus was Horus. I hate those "reinterpretation" crowd, you know the Acharya S./D. Murdock cultists. They truly give Atheists a bad name. Most Atheists feel no need to "reinvent" Jesus or any other religious figure like this crowd does.
BlackhawkNZ
QUOTE(starfkr @ Sep 16 2009, 04:59 PM) *
I understand, but did you realize that most Atheistic scholars do accept Jesus as being a historical figure? It's funny, but true. Only a minority suggests that Jesus never existed. Tom Harpur should really be ashamed of himself. I haven't read his book yet, but if the documentary is a fair portrayel of the info in his book then he has definately NOT proved that Jesus was Horus. I hate those "reinterpretation" crowd, you know the Acharya S./D. Murdock cultists. They truly give Atheists a bad name. Most Atheists feel no need to "reinvent" Jesus or any other religious figure like this crowd does.


Yeah, that's true actually. There was no direct evidence to suggest that Horus was the actual incantation of jesus at all, just assumptions. I am of the camp that does tend to feel that jesus never existed though. I really don't feel that there is any substantial evidence to prove his existence at all.
starfkr
QUOTE(BlackhawkNZ @ Sep 16 2009, 12:56 AM) *
Yeah, that's true actually. There was no direct evidence to suggest that Horus was the actual incantation of jesus at all, just assumptions. I am of the camp that does tend to feel that jesus never existed though. I really don't feel that there is any substantial evidence to prove his existence at all.


The only evidence for the existance of a historical Jesus is the gospels, and they are incredibly weak.
Bam76
Testimonium Flavium by Josephus has two passages about a man named Jesus. One that says "Jesus the brother of James" and nothing else which most scholars accept as authentic writings of Josephus and the second that claims he is the true holy messiah or something along those lines. The second one is completely out of context with what is being talked about before and after. If you take this passage out the writing flows and makes sense. Most scholars deem this passage as a forgery added later by christian propagandaists.

I'm pretty sure there lived a man named Jesus. In fact, there are many alive today with the same name....
mark8
QUOTE(Bam76 @ Sep 16 2009, 04:17 PM) *
Testimonium Flavium by Josephus has two passages about a man named Jesus. One that says "Jesus the brother of James" and nothing else which most scholars accept as authentic writings of Josephus and the second that claims he is the true holy messiah or something along those lines. The second one is completely out of context with what is being talked about before and after. If you take this passage out the writing flows and makes sense. Most scholars deem this passage as a forgery added later by christian propagandaists.

I'm pretty sure there lived a man named Jesus. In fact, there are many alive today with the same name....



Not to mention he was a 'Jewish Historian', we all know that the Jews do not agree with the Christain claims of his divinity. For a Jew the Messiah is yet to come, that's why they crucified his lying ass lol.
BlackhawkNZ
QUOTE(Bam76 @ Sep 17 2009, 03:17 AM) *
Testimonium Flavium by Josephus has two passages about a man named Jesus. One that says "Jesus the brother of James" and nothing else which most scholars accept as authentic writings of Josephus and the second that claims he is the true holy messiah or something along those lines. The second one is completely out of context with what is being talked about before and after. If you take this passage out the writing flows and makes sense. Most scholars deem this passage as a forgery added later by christian propagandaists.

I'm pretty sure there lived a man named Jesus. In fact, there are many alive today with the same name....


Yup, and the vast majority live in Mexico. Maybe someone should tell Iza that the second coming has happened thousands of times, she should move there.
starfkr
QUOTE(Bam76 @ Sep 16 2009, 10:17 AM) *
Testimonium Flavium by Josephus has two passages about a man named Jesus. One that says "Jesus the brother of James" and nothing else which most scholars accept as authentic writings of Josephus and the second that claims he is the true holy messiah or something along those lines. The second one is completely out of context with what is being talked about before and after. If you take this passage out the writing flows and makes sense. Most scholars deem this passage as a forgery added later by christian propagandaists.

I'm pretty sure there lived a man named Jesus. In fact, there are many alive today with the same name....


Not only that but there were many High Priests who were named Jesus. And most would know that "christ" means annointed, and the High Priest was annointed, so the term "christ" might be applied to them as well. It's possible that Josephus was referring to a disgraced High Priest named Jesus who had a brother named James, who was killed.
Bam76
QUOTE(starfkr @ Sep 16 2009, 08:41 PM) *
Not only that but there were many High Priests who were named Jesus. And most would know that "christ" means annointed, and the High Priest was annointed, so the term "christ" might be applied to them as well. It's possible that Josephus was referring to a disgraced High Priest named Jesus who had a brother named James, who was killed.


Which is why I give very little weight to any historical Jesus. If the man of the bible did exist, I'm sure he was a decent guy who wanted people to live in peace. If he didn't exist, then he didn't exist. Either way, it doesn't matter. Even if he did exist that doesn't make the "miracle" stories any more factual as there is still the lack of proof that it ever happened.
Each new religion puts a name to a messiah or god. Jesus, Horus, Muhammed, Krishna, Ra, Zeus, Mithra, and the list goes on and on. Too many parallels to older religions for me to deem the bible viable as truth. Oh and that little nagging petty part about ZERO EVIDENCE!
starfkr
QUOTE(Bam76 @ Sep 16 2009, 10:02 PM) *
Which is why I give very little weight to any historical Jesus. If the man of the bible did exist, I'm sure he was a decent guy who wanted people to live in peace. If he didn't exist, then he didn't exist. Either way, it doesn't matter. Even if he did exist that doesn't make the "miracle" stories any more factual as there is still the lack of proof that it ever happened.
Each new religion puts a name to a messiah or god. Jesus, Horus, Muhammed, Krishna, Ra, Zeus, Mithra, and the list goes on and on. Too many parallels to older religions for me to deem the bible viable as truth. Oh and that little nagging petty part about ZERO EVIDENCE!


LOL...My father has one of those old encyclopedia sets from like the 1950s that still lists Monotheism as an "advancement" over polytheism. What a joke. The way I see it is that the only thing Monotheism is good for is as a stepping stone toward Atheism, which is the only true advancement.
mark8
QUOTE(starfkr @ Sep 17 2009, 04:25 AM) *
LOL...My father has one of those old encyclopedia sets from like the 1950s that still lists Monotheism as an "advancement" over polytheism. What a joke. The way I see it is that the only thing Monotheism is good for is as a stepping stone toward Atheism, which is the only true advancement.


How does the line go again, paraphrasing: "First we had many Gods, then we had one. We're getting closer to the true figure all the time."
nomed44
yes there was no guy named Jesus Christ or Jesus H Christ

you guys forget about going into the Hebrew Name the original name

im still studying and trying to figure out his hebrew name

ive got an idea what it is
ultraforge
That's true, if not semantics.

What is interesting is that modern Christians have absolutely no regard for the real name of their savior, or he name of their god. They use the name "god", which actually has pagan origins as well, and is not even a name.

I feel that the absolute lack of interest in the reality surrounding their savior or deity is proof of Jesus being VERY unlikely to have existed. No Christian even seems to care. The reality of the situation bears no weight in the mind of a Christian. The entire religion is fueled by not only mythology, but also many personal, convenient and welcomed misinterpretations of that mythology.

Dont let truth get in the way of a good story!
morpheusprime
of course he was real. but his name was not Jesus, it was Brian. they made a movie and everything! sheesh.
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